The leopard is not changing its spots

2 things in the past  2 days helped strengthened my belief that UMNO would not change.

Firstly,  my fellow blogger  romerz alerted me by his comment as to the manifesto of our DPM in his quest to be the No. I of UMNO. It was mentioned in Malaysiakini that the DPM announced: “I will defend the supremacy of the Malays until the last drop of my blood if I win the mandate of the delegates to become the next Umno president at election to be held in March 2009”.

The first thing that strikes my mind is whether UMNO leaders learned anything from the MArch 8 General Election. It seems that they are still willing to play race politics which was rejected in the last general election.

The non Malays have no quarrels about what is in the Constitution. What is spelt out in the Constitution must be respected and obeyed. But apart from that , isn’t this the time to go forward to a fairer and more just society , noting that without meritocracy and a fairer and more just world, the tides of globalisation is going to drown all of us.  It would have made so much more difference if he had mentioned that he will defend the rigths of all Malaysians to the last drops of his blood…

Why the need to mentioned Supremacy? Does it means that UMNO hegemony will continue, despite what the component parties have been asking for a more equal status recently? I note that even Ong Ka Ting in his last speech as MCA president mentioned that – to quote Star :

Outgoing MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting has outlined various issues – ranging from the Internal Security Act to the issuing of Government contracts and dominance of Umno in the ruling coalition – as reasons why the people had a negative perception of the Barisan Nasional.

In one of his hardest hitting policy speeches in his five years as party president, Ong pointed out that these perceptions had continued against the Barisan even seven months after the March 8 general election because most of the issues had not been resolved.

“What is worrying the MCA is that although we have raised these issues many times to be addressed by the Government, the solution has not been satisfactory.

The second thing that has strengthened my belief that UMNO will never change is  that the PM said that ISA  will not be reviewed. I take this to mean that ISA will never be changed, despite the calls from component parties to repeal it.

In my opinion and I have been quite vocal on this point, is that ISA should be repealed in toto. ISA, and any detention without trial for that matter, gives the power-that-be unlimited power to arrest anyone , even if that someone poses no threat to the security to the country, and may just be voicing out dissenting opinion. By virtue of such unlimited power, whoever holding this power will tend to abuse the power . One thing will lead to another. With such power in hand, it is not difficult to understand why one government  institution after another has been compromised, leading to bad governance, corruption and arrogance.

We should therefore push for a system where no one is detained without trial. Even hardcore criminals and terrorists must be allowed trial to defend themselves.

So, if UMNO would not change, then the next logical question is that why are we still in BN, Gerakan? It is time to leave , since if UMNo does not change, there will never be a chance for the party to realise its ideology of a fair and equal society. The power to decide must be given back to the grassroots and an EGM will be in order.

Now as a CC member, I am handicapped by the fact that I cannot reveal what is discussed in the CC meetings, since during the swearing in as CC members, there is a clause that all of us must not reveal what transpires in a CC meeting, just like in any party or organisation. But rest assured, I will push as hard as I can for those things that I have mentioned in my platform when I offered myself as a candidate for CC. To me, nothing has changed, I still view myself as a grassroot  of the party with a chance to voice out to the leaders direct. 

Update at 11.45 am : Malaysiakini now reports that Najib’s office denied issuing the manifesto claiming that it was issued by a support group and is not sanctioned by Najib. (Not that it makes any difference to my belief that a leopard will never change its spots).

Malaysian Insider carries a denial by the DPM saying that he did not issue the manifesto.

Latest update 21st October: The journalist who wrote the report resigned from Malaysiakini to take responsibility of the Malaysiakini report, which has misled many readers including many bloggers. Malaysiakini has also apologised to the DPM for the report.

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48 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. clearwater
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 12:23:12

    The manifesto is supposedly from Najib’s ‘support’ group, not that it makes any hair splitting difference. Najib is unlikely to be a PM for all Malaysians. He is more likely to carry on past divisive political legacies and to harp on Umno hegemony, for that is where he derives his support and power base. Any reform will be cosmetic at best. Repression will rear its ugly head even higher. The ISA will be used more often to curb dissent. The NEP will continue in its manipulated form for the Umnoputras. It’s business as usual until we kick out this government. What will the minor coalition parties do other than wring their hands in impotence?

    Like

  2. zztop
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 13:10:11

    Great article Dr.
    I knew that this up and coming Mr.C4 is still the same old racialistic, murderous and corrupted bum. God save the rakyat especially the non malays.
    The way he was nominated proved that most of those in UMNO are of the same type and calibre.
    As for MCA/MIC/Gerakan they are no longer relevant in representing their community as long as they work with these current bunch of bums. Their recent elections have no meaning to the rakyat especially the chinese anymore.
    One party even got the cheek to ask for a DPM post. DPM post, my foot. Get real and wake up.

    Like

  3. CYC
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 13:58:54

    Congratulations to MCA, Gerakan + MIC for 50 years of practicing “Dog Slavery ” mentality ( Kou Nu Cai) to its optimum. “Siau Ren Gai Sie, Wang Shang Wan Sui, Wan Wan Sui” ” Wan Shang Yau Wuo Sie, Zhen Bu Neng Bu Sie” Thus are the heroic sacrifices that earned them the rewards and wealth. It is immaterial whether one become a dog or a wolf, after all they still remain in the power that be camp and it shall be their ultimate glory in life.

    Look at Ling Liong Sik who once said the Chinese must observe minority mindset instead of asking too much from the majority race. The results is tonnes wealth were amassed during the 20+ years
    in power plus a Tunship upon “retirement”. And there is another Lim Keng Yaik who untiringly defended BN’s policy but only to admit Gerakan is a political beggar upon retirement. These are classic example of “Nu Cai Sher Xiang” practitioners.

    Three cheers to the Chinese Community for voted MCA + Gerakan during the last 50 years.

    Like

  4. Looking for Hockey players for TVC
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 15:18:36

    DR

    “I will defend the supremacy of the Malays……”

    *What else do you expect him to say ? He is going for the top job of The United Malay National Organization.

    ——————————–

    “…..PM said that ISA will not be reviewed…… calls from component parties to repeal it.”

    *Why would they disarm themselves + stop their bullying ethics? It had been working so well for so long. plus look at all the cheer leaders…like Gerakan….whom believe that we are all brothers in arms ?

    ———————————

    “…….still view myself as a grassroot of the party with a chance to voice out to the leaders direct.”

    *Maybe you are barking up the wrong tree, Dr.

    Like

  5. Justin Choo
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 15:29:41

    My Dear Dr Hsu,

    There are at least 3 leopards existing long time ago. But now you only see one. The other twos are in MIC and sorry to say your Gerakan.

    We have eyes that only look; but cannot SEE.

    Like

  6. Dr Hsu
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 15:51:23

    Justin, theparty’s ideology of fair and equal society makes it different from a leopard. It may be cover with certain dirt now, and we shall try to rid the body of dirt and let the skin show again.

    I am sure u know some gerakan grassroots members since u are from Penang. They are different from MCA MIC or UMNO. They join mainly because of the aim of the ideology.

    I hope i am not barking at the wrong tree; but if in the end i am proven wrong, at least i say with conscience that it is not me that have abandon the ideals of a fair and equal society.

    Like

  7. Dr Hsu
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 16:01:57

    Justin, this weekend, myself romerz and veonszu(another blogger) are going to debate with Dr Koh Tsu Koon in a private debate. we will try to make him see that the only way to realise our ideology is by coming out of BN.

    Like

  8. omo
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 17:00:26

    Dr Hsu

    If Gerakan comes out of BN to be a third force , any comments that attack PR, people it still see Gerakan as part of BN – a reminder of the Malaysian Democratic Patry under Mr Wee. But if Gerakan were to check on BN, itsn’t it better for Gerakan to join PR?

    I think your feedback just stops at whether to be part of BN or out of BN. What happen next? Is there room for a third force when today, people still see BN is still power and PR has yet to neutralise BN’s strength. A third force may only be relevent in the distance future like the Green Party if BN or PR are not performing well.

    Like

  9. A true Malaysian
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 17:55:13

    Dr. Hsu,

    You said “Now as a CC member, I am handicapped by the fact that I cannot reveal what is discussed in the CC meetings, since during the swearing in as CC members, there is a clause that all of us must not reveal what transpires in a CC meeting, just like in any party or organisation.”

    I am not sure whether you have considered you will be ‘handicapped’ before you decided to join the CC. If you were aware and have considered, why should you join CC in the first place?

    Anyway, that is beside the point. My view is that, Umno, the leopard, will not change. Even if you manage to convince your CC to change, still useless, since the leopard will never change its spots.

    To me, your effort should be concentrated in convincing Gerakan grassroots to resign in exodus, that will be more realistic. But again, you are in CC, you are ‘handicapped’.

    Like

  10. Rights for all
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 18:03:46

    Gerakan is a first class hyprocite and lately the best ball-carrier. Gerakan can only talk big about reforms, rejection of ISA..blah..blah..blah…during their general assembly. Why are the Gerakan MPs not supporting PR’s motion to debate the ISA in Parliment?
    Gerakan deserved to be kicked out of Penang.

    Like

  11. A true Malaysian
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 18:18:44

    Rights for all,

    You are definitely right. BN MPs other than those from Umno should support the right causes in Parliament, even if the motion is suggested by Pakatan Rakyat MPs.

    If these MPs can do that, then they will not be deemed as being ‘bullied’ by Umno. After all, Umno claimed that they are not bullies.

    If not, they are deemed as MPs without souls.

    Like

  12. langchiapek
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 18:21:29

    Quote

    Justin, this weekend, myself romerz and veonszu(another blogger) are going to debate with Dr Koh Tsu Koon in a private debate. we will try to make him see that the only way to realise our ideology is by coming out of BN.

    Dr Hsu,

    Debate debate and debate, what good will that make for the citizens of Malaysia and Gerakan party members ?

    at the end of the debate, you 4 will continue to drink teh tarik and continue with your talk cock sing song ..

    the next day, business as usual, and UMNO continues to run the show.

    LPPL

    langchiapek@gmail.com

    Like

  13. A true Malaysian
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 18:27:25

    Announcing manifesto and denying manifesto. I hope this is not the sign of another ‘flip-flop’ PM in the pipeline.

    My question is, doesn’t Najib has his press secretary? Wow, even his support group and announce manifesto and his aides denying manifesto.

    I am confused, which is which, aides not his support group?

    Like

  14. Justin Choo
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 18:33:52

    Dr Hsu,

    Are you feeling in your 6th sense that your fervent commentators are getting a bit impatience with your “directions”? I did.

    Like

  15. A true Malaysian
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 19:32:11

    We are losing patience with all these talkings and persuasions.

    As I see it, all component parties should leave Umno alone in BN. Only then, I may be wrong, Umno will be cured of its deaseases like arrogance, ignorance, dominance and big bully. If still not cured by then, just leave it there to death. No other way.

    Like

  16. zztop
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 19:48:27

    With all the huha comments lately above, I got the feeling that we all just talk.
    What is so secretive and damaging on what have been discussed in any party CC meeting. They are supposed to represent the people. The members have the right to know what have been discussed in the CC irrespective. Otherwise there should not have any discussions or meetings in the first place.
    If Gerakan still behaves this way, then it is better for them to dissolve the party and close shop.
    Let the members decide their political affiliation. Enough of being told you cannot do this or that under this or that law or will anger our Umnoputras bums.

    Like

  17. eugene
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 20:47:29

    Quote

    “But rest assured, I will push as hard as I can for those things that I have mentioned in my platform when I offered myself as a candidate for CC. To me, nothing has changed, I still view myself as a grassroot of the party with a chance to voice out to the leaders direct. ”

    Dr Hsu,

    Like I mentioned earlier, pls give yourself a timeline. Phrases like ” I’ll try my best . . .”, “I’ll continue to voice out . . . ” has no value to the rakyat. I am sure many before you had tried their best or voiced out but what’s the end result???
    Mahathirism is making a come back, there is no doubt about it, his son will definitely be the next Umnoputra youth chief, during his interview with the Star reporter publised in the Star, he talked like his father. And the next Umno
    supreme council will be flooded with his people. you want to talk about fairness, justice etc with his cronies?

    Like

  18. Damocles
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 21:04:37

    “What is worrying the MCA is that although we have raised these issues many times to be addressed by the Government, the solution has not been satisfactory.

    Judging from the tone of your postings, I am sure you are no better than the rest of those who are in self denial in the MCA and in your party as well.
    You know how bad the situation is in the BN but you keep fooling yourself that change will be possible.
    By the time you wake up, the tidal wave would have swept away the BN and a new dawn would have arrived.
    Doc, do WAKE UP!
    And stop fooling yourself!!
    Or do you want to go down in a ship of fools!!!

    Like

  19. A true Malaysian
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 21:15:03

    Hey guys,

    We should give Dr. Hsu a break here. I believe even if Dr. Hsu not able to convince his comrades in Gerakan CC and in particular Koh Tsu Koon, Dr. Hsu would be able to convince Gerakan grassroots and rakyat in general.

    Dr. Hsu’s Forum is gaining its popularity from day to day. Gerakan leaders and grassroots are frequenting this forum from time to time. That’s why we can see Dr. Hsu admission into CC without much intense campaigning and obtained the 3rd highest votes amongst CC members.

    I think most of us here keep visiting this forum because we are thinking in the same wave length with his thoughts posted in this forum , not because Dr. Hsu is handsome or charismatic (He is indeed handsome and charismatic).

    Of course, there were and are elements that have ulterior motive which hope to ‘banish’ Dr. Hsu in blogsphere but there are many more readers keep visiting but choose not to comment.

    Just hope Dr. Hsu will not ‘tone down’ his critics just because he is ‘handicapped’ being a CC member now. I believe Dr. Hsu knows well what to do next, even though it is not an easy task.

    It is a zero sum game so long as Gerakan still remain in BN, but Dr. Hsu is not for Gerakan only, he is for others as well.

    Like

  20. petestop
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 21:22:07

    Hi guys, let’s give Doc Hsu some encouragement here… at least he is trying to make Gerakan see senses, even if some of their leaders are still blinded.

    It’s not just talking about “conscience” anymore, but Gerakan must act their “conscience”.

    The ISA detention of YB Teresa debate in parliament is where we the Rakyat expect Gerakan to act their conscience, not keep talking and begging UMNO about it.

    Nor the Hindraf banning issue.

    Doc Hsu, while you are at it, please mention to KTK that really he should review his own image to the public…. we cannot shake the fact that everytime he opens his mouth, he came across as beggars at UMNO’s feet.

    This one, for sure will never get him back into Penang even if he is a nice guy and trying to do good for Penang.

    Like

  21. Kenny Gan
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 22:21:15

    Dr. Hsu has the best of intentions but I fear he will be a lone voice in the CC with the leadership closing their ears to him or “in one ear and out another”.

    Look at what Koh Tsu Koon declared shortly after he was elected President. “Gerakan will remain in BN!” he shouted loud and clear. What about his own admission that 60% (probably higher in reality) of Gerakan members want out of BN? Are the grassroots nothing?

    No matter how bad Umno’s excesses, I have a feeling that Gerakan led by KTK will cling on to BN like a drowning man clutching at the last lifebuoy. BN is their only hope for a return to power, the last train to their lost Kingdom.

    Of course KTK does not look beyond the next G.E. Outside BN he can see no future, not even as a party to genuinely serve the people and act as an effective opposition. He only wants back his Kingdom and BN is the only way back with the power of Federal incumbency to shorten the odds.

    As for Dr Hsu, I’m not sure what he can do in the CC. Sounding to the leadership is like water off a duck’s back. Dr Hsu may more effective galvanizing the grassroots rather than shouting at the leaders who are on a different plane.

    Like

  22. Dr Hsu
    Oct 20, 2008 @ 22:36:32

    Kenny, A true malaysian, petestop, and others,yes, we still need to push the grassroots, that is why this blog is important because it reaches out to the grassroots.

    I will keep talking about what i believe is right, a fair and equal society, good governance, anti corruption,an independent judiciary, a freer press.

    Like

  23. romerz
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 00:57:40

    Dear langchiapek,

    What else will you have us do? I know that UMNO is going about its merry ways but can we do anything about it now?

    Take to the streets? Call for a nationwide strike? Strap myself with explosives and run into PWTC during UMNO agm in March? Even that got to wait until March!

    So tell me what you expect of us? Anwar can’t even get a motion of no confidence through at the moment so no change of government or fresh rounds of elections so what can we do except debate with those who have influence and are prepared to listen to 3 small frys.

    At least we are trying to persuade KTK to bring his party out of BN to isolate UMNO further. This much we are trying but obviously not to your satisfaction.

    What is your contribution except pouring cold water on those who try, insignificant as it may be to you but they all add up.

    I can’t speak for Dr Hsu or Veonszu, but I’m going to try my darn best to persuade him to hold a special egm or referendum so that the grassroots can decide whether to remain in BN or not and not the leadership decide only.

    You got a better suggestion apart from telling us ‘lam par pak lan’?

    Like

  24. Vincent Ho
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 10:42:58

    This is one of the funniest posting I ever read…

    Nearly everyone who are either from the fence sitter or the other side of the fence is asking Dr Hsu to resign the fact he’s barking at the wrong tree and Gerakan will not change it’s spot or Gerakan to join PR and “strengthen PR in it’s quest to wrest the present government to form the new government’ even it’s de facto leader Sdr Anwar Ibrahim can’t do it.

    My 2 bits comments:
    Quote 1 – CYC: ‘Cheers to the Chinese Community for voted MCA + Gerakan during the last 50 years’.
    Comment: MCA is 55 years. Gerakan is 40 years. How can the chinese community being voting for them both for the last 50 years…perhaps only MCA. If besides MCA which other chinese based party can the chinese vote for other than DAP after Malaya’s Independence in 1957?

    Quote 2 – Rights for all: ‘…Gerakan deserved to be kicked out of Penang.’

    Comment: Perhaps it’s true that Gerakan deserved it…perhaps not. Before PKR came about and formed PR where were you? Did you spoke up about the wrongs you see in Penang or you got the ‘you see but remain blind, you hear and you remain deaf, you listen and you remain dumb’ syndrome.

    Where were you guys and gals all these years? Were you all so contented with the happenings that you kept silent about the wrongs that have been happening? Whether we like it or not…we are all in it together.

    Credit must be given to Dr Hsu for speaking up…are you as brave as him to do it? If you are then come out of your shell and join him in (Gerakan) chorus instead of lambasting him. He needs the support and not brickbats. Gerakan has always been the Conscience of BN and will always be.

    Unless you are leaders…we are all grassroots… the rakyat. Think for goodness sake and not use emotions or mob mentality.

    Whether Gerakan will be the 3rd force in the equation, I will be there to see it…will the rest of you be there with me?

    Satu Hati

    Like

  25. Justin Choo
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 10:50:54

    Vincent Ho,

    I am a nobody. But I just like to repeat here that I never voted for the BN parties all my life. This is my democratic right; rightly or wrongly.

    Like

  26. Dr Hsu
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 11:32:04

    romerz, you have spoken my mind.

    Now, since there is little chance of an immediate change of government, what we should do is the next best course, influence the top people to press for change, or press them to come out and fight for change. The same policy if continued for another 4 years will make this country another Philippines.

    So we need to talk. Try to convince. tell your friends about what should be a good government. Tell your MPs and Aduns about all the unfiar things. For those grassroots, tell the top leaders what you hear from the ground. This is exactly the same strategy I advocated when Tan Hoon Cheng was arrested under ISA.

    Spread the message around. apply the pressure through convincing the people. This was how Gandhi succeeded in India, this was how Solidarity succeeded in Poland.

    Taken in this context , we need to convince ayone who is willing to lend us an ear. Since Dr Koh, as an orang beasr, has consented to listen to us the three small fries, why not put our views directly to him?

    Like

  27. A true Malaysian
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 11:37:07

    A vote to Gerakan, MCA, MIC and other BN parties is a vote to Umno and not to these so-called ‘equal partners’.

    So, Just exercise your votes wisely. Gerakan, MCA, MIC and other BN parties can have very good ideologies, fair, transparent and so on, but what is the use? Umno is the one who have final say.

    The only solution is to GET OUT OF BN.

    Like

  28. Taikohtai
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 11:38:32

    The leopard will not change its spots but there’s more than one way to skin a cat!
    Its bloody obvious to many of us that BN is dying. When the main body dies, the hangers on too shall succumbed.
    Gerakan can do all Malaysians a real favour and live up to its namesake as a freedom fighter by doing a Datuk Zaid. Don’t blindly copy what MCA and MIC are doing…..take the lead for goodness sake! Luckily, the majority of Penangites did exercise their constitutional rights without fear or favour and got a new CM and are now basking in glory! To them, Gerakan was the leopard that did not change its spots and got skinned!!

    Like

  29. yh
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 11:42:55

    najib’s forte is issuing denial statements. this time, he deny it and place the blame on certain support groups which issued the manifesto without his consent.
    questions. which are the support groups? how are they linked to him? has any discussion been made bewteen him and these support groups in regards to the manifesto? why arent these support groups named and given a reprimand for “putting words into Najib’s mouth”.
    If the above is clarified, then Najib’s denial can be verified. otherwise, its no different from denials in regards to the various current allegations against him. By golly, he is going to be the PM of this country and he must be above all these allegations in order for him to lead and govern.

    Like

  30. Dr Hsu
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 11:43:37

    A True Malaysian, I will print out your comment and show to KTK.

    You are the conscience of the intellectual class, that is the impression i get since I know you for more than ayear in this blog… And I will tell KTK, this is how the conscientious Malaysians view the component parties… We are unable to achieve a fair and equal society unless we are on our own.

    Like

  31. A true Malaysian
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 12:01:08

    Dr. Hsu,

    Please also tell KTK that I am prepared to give Gerakan my vote if Gerakan is out of BN.

    I believe many people like me are ready for that. I and many people have eyes to see, and ears to hear. To Umno, we just ‘mou gan tai’.

    We don’t vote blindly. Gerakan maybe a good party but it is still ‘not worth’ my vote.

    Like

  32. A true Malaysian
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 12:32:51

    We can see clearly now how crucial Umno is to the whole nation.

    Its election to President, Deputy President, Vice President and so on which require certain number of minimum nominations in order to qualify aspire candidates to contest has killed many genuine contestants to offer themselves. This not only affected democracy in Umno but also the nation as a whole.

    As we can witness now that up to now, only Najib is nominated to contest for Umno President and very likely, there will be no contest at all for that position. Yet, we see announcement of ‘manifesto’.

    This is only one flaw that will affect all of us. How about other flaws? Gerakan, who regard itself as ‘party of conscience’ can do anything to eliminate these flaws? This is definitely out of your control.

    PM of Malaysia should not be elected this way, it is full of flaws.

    Like

  33. CYC
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 12:44:14

    Vincent Ho,

    I do know that Gerakan is only 40 years old and MCA is more than 50 years old. The statement is made in generalized term.

    Ideology is one thing but reality is another essence that must be taken into consideration in politics. Let make reiterate my stand : tell KTK to retire if he can’t uphold the ideology Gerakan is so proud of. After all, a leader must withstand the test of achieving the party’s goal as well as aspire followers confidence, failing which he should step down. This is what call leadership with responsibility, don’t ape the BN’s style where one will stick to its position irrespective of failure to perform or losing confidence of the public.

    ” Acknowledging shame is almost equal to bravery” (Sorry for the not so accurate translation.) KTK should also realise that everything must go thru the process of formation, progression, decaying and ultimately destruction. He should not be unduly worry of shouldering the blame of Gerakan’s possible disintegration if pull out of BN. A soul without physical appearance may be better than a physical entity without soul.

    Like

  34. chinseng
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 16:24:04

    Quote:-
    this weekend, myself romerz and veonszu(another blogger) are going to debate with Dr Koh Tsu Koon in a private debate. we will try to make him see that the only way to realise our ideology is by coming out of BN.

    Dear Doc.

    Can this debate be open to interested party members to attend and listen?? Do not do too many things in private lah…. May be attendence can be by invitation and hoping that I can be invited.

    Reards

    Like

  35. Dr Hsu
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 16:31:30

    chinseng, i have no problems.

    Maybe you can sound out veonszu if u are a Penang member. Because I still do not know the venue yet. Veonszu could probably ask KTK or his secretary as well as romerz.

    I doubt anyone would want to see 3 small fries in action..

    Like

  36. romerz
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 17:52:14

    Dr Hsu,

    I have a problem with that since my understanding is protocol will be set aside and that we can discuss even ‘sensitive’ stuff amongst friends.

    I would feel too constrained in front of strangers to talk about the really sensitive stuff which may contain personal knowledge of KTK’s failure to stand up to minor UMNO warlords during his administration of Penang.

    My vote is closed door but I will go along with majority decision.

    Like

  37. klm
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 19:11:22

    Dr Hsu

    Given what is hapening in Kedah with the PR state govt ruling that 50% of housing (with discount) must be reserve for Malay, PR is not being any different from BN if given the chance.

    This means that we need a third force – a separate multiracial party. Gerakan can fit this bill. I think it should break from BN and become the third force

    Like

  38. Justin Choo
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 20:37:40

    As someone had commented, before we can have a third force, we need to set up a strong PR alternative. Then the third force can come into play.

    Like

  39. Justin Choo
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 20:38:56

    Sorry, I am talking about Federal Government.

    Like

  40. Rights for all
    Oct 21, 2008 @ 21:24:21

    Gerakan should initiate a secret discussion with MCA/MIC/SAPP ala Umno-PAS. Since Umno don’t give a hoot, what are you waiting for?

    Like

  41. Vincent Ho
    Oct 22, 2008 @ 01:48:21

    Justin Choo,

    A nobody with a vote in his hand…or a spoil vote…or perhaps who doesn’t vote. The choices are really ours. To either vote for any BN component parties or PR component parties is really our God given right as a democratic Bangsa Malaysia.

    Ideas are just on paper…it’s the action thats speaks volumes.

    Gerakan has been on the receiving end since Gerakan lost out on Penang. What can I say…easy come, easy go. Perhaps it’s true that UMNO has gone insane and arrogant that they totally forgotten the rest of its component parties that made up BN and ignore the fact that without us they can’t really set up the Federal Government…yet they still choose to say ‘stupid things and behave like morons’.

    The fact is BN IS the government of the day. Whether Gerakan leaves or stay, BN will still be in power…lets face it…Gerakan has just got 2 MPs to show. To make any difference all component parties that make up BN has to leave BN (with their MPs) to make any significant change in BN, without which we can say what we like about this and that until the cows come home and still make no difference.

    To CYC,
    Quote: ‘I do know that Gerakan is only 40 years old and MCA is more than 50 years old. The statement is made in generalized term.’

    To generalise anything is like saying Anwar Ibrahim has the full mandate of the rakyat to be the next PM…hamburg. It’s not just an untruth but malicious also. Speak with facts and the truth will set us all free.

    Satu Hati

    Like

  42. Chauncey Gardener
    Oct 22, 2008 @ 08:24:10

    Since you had mentioned “a fairer and more just coiety” in your posting, I am quite disgusted to read that there are 4,800 unsold property lots in the Klang Valley that are being touted in the Bumiputra Property Fair.

    First of all, if these lots cannot be sold to legitimate bumiputeras, why keep selling it on a limited basis ? The rest of Malaysians are being deprived of an opportunity to buy.

    Secondly, the property developer is also stuck because of these ethno-political parameters.

    Lastly, why is there a Property Fair based on ethnic background ? I can understand if it involved bumi developers as it can help sell units to the general market but by limiting the buyers ?

    Just another example of how far we need to go to achieve a “fair and just” society.

    Like

  43. Dr Hsu
    Oct 22, 2008 @ 10:54:38

    Justin, as a net exporter, we will sell more when price is up. even though the subsidy will be higher, the net inflow of money will be more. Our National coffer will be richer.

    But since oil is a depleting substance , it is good to gradually do away subsidy, but to do it so fast and so much is hurting the economy. I have mentioned then that since we are an net exporter, we are in no hurry to raise the pump prices by so much then…. Now that the oil price has come down, our actual revenue is much less, and even though subsidy is less, we as a nation is gettig less income on this.

    What they should have done then is to raise pump prices a little bit, and then wait and watch. To have such high price for oil (140 a barrel), it is going to cause a recession, and sine in a recesion, demand for goods will come down, the demand for oil will come down too. So in fact when the world oil price shoots up too fast, we should have anticipated a reduction in oil prices ultimately.

    The economic advisors to the PM must have given wrong advice then.

    Now that the oil price has coe down, this is actually the right opportunity to do away with subsidy , since goods prices have already adjusted to the level of pump prices at 2.70.

    We can reduce pump prices , but perhaps not at the same rate as the drop of world oil prices, so that our subsidy (still a 30sen per litre) can be done away . This is to ensure that next time, when our oil runs out, we do not have to subsidy petrol from tax players pockets.

    Of course, overall, if we can reduce wastages and corruption we ca save billions of rinnggits, and which ca be used for stimulating economy by spending on productive sectors and educating our workforce. With better knowledge, then only we can move up the economic and technological ladder, to a more sophisticated and hence higher earning economy.

    Like

  44. Justin Choo
    Oct 22, 2008 @ 11:52:59

    Chauncey Gardener,

    Precisely; that’s why the is a need for a change in government.

    Vincent Ho,
    “To make any difference all component parties that make up BN has to leave BN…”

    That’s what we are calling for. To topple UMNO more than to raise PR.

    Like

  45. yh
    Oct 22, 2008 @ 14:38:33

    well, i am wrong in regards to the manifesto issue. and I must applaud Najib’s acceptance of the apology from malaysiakini. the reporter has also resigned to take responsibility for the mess created.

    Like

  46. chinseng
    Oct 22, 2008 @ 21:24:33

    Dear Doc. Hsu, romerz,

    Since romerz wanna the debate to be close door and I have confident that 3 of you will be able to argue some good points with KTK, I will not attend.

    Doc., after a tsunami, your house which have more than 40 columns was very hardly hit and left with only 6 columns. You wanna to re-built the house, you only re-built it to exactly the same as before with the maximum possible of 43 columns and look very small OR given the opportunity, re-built it to a house with a possiblility of more than 400 columns??

    Everybody say that Gerakan will be the third force but I do not think so. A few years later, Gerakan can be the second force or even the prime force! I foresee the possibility that either the PR or the BN may not last very long from now. Gerakan have the opportunity now!

    Like

  47. romerz
    Oct 22, 2008 @ 22:17:07

    Dear chinseng,

    I understand from veonszu that there will be a few of KTK’s guests as well so I guess it won’t be a closed door thing after all.

    I’ll abide by whatever the circumstances since I’m grateful to have been invited in the first place.

    Please do not let my wishes prevent you from attending. If there is already going to be a stranger there to me, might as well let it be many.

    I have no preconditions, just a preference.

    Of course its entirely up to the organizer.

    Like

  48. THE TRUTH
    Oct 23, 2008 @ 13:46:34

    The only reason Malaysia is a peaceful country is because the minority people in Malaysia is Non-Muslim !

    Like

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