Anal wound from fall?

Dr Dr Porntip Rojanasunan (Dr PR), the pathologist from Thailand , testified at the TBH case and opined that there was a 80% chance that his death was due to homicide.

I wanted to write on her opinion, which I thought was very professional, but since there is someone- drrafick- who has written better, I would just refer you all to his blog.

I will paraphrase a few paragraphs of his writings here:

8.  The most damaging evidence came from the findings of Dr PR on the signs of strangulation around the neck. A quick review of the pathologist report (Item No 5, pg 7 and Item under heading of injuries on page 3) showed that the Malaysian Pathologist acknowledge the presence of the wound but did not account for the reason of the wound. Certainly, Dr PR has a point as she demonstrated how the wound would have come about i.e. by manual strangulation.

9.  Another interesting interpretation by Dr PR is with regards to the anal wound. Again the Malaysian Pathologist noted the presence of a penetrating wound injury measuring 2cmx6cm (Item 7 and 8, page No4) (item 7, 8 page No8 ) but did not take into account the cause of this injury when making their conclusions. Dr PR claim such a longitudinal wound must have been due to a penetrating injury rather that the fractures around the hip. This is also logical

10. From Dr PR findings, it is obvious that the Malaysian doctors actually saw what Dr PR saw but did not take into account the seriousness of the two injuries at the neck and anus. Is there a possibility that they had intentionally omitted their conclusions on these two injuries? If there is such a possibility, then why did they do it? A senior pathologist like Dr Khairul surely could not have concluded that the injury especially in the neck is due to a fall from height.

11. Based on Dr PR explanation, I believe the Malaysian doctors need to revisit their findings again and analyze it. They need to find a solid argument to counter the findings of Dr PR. I would say they are in a better position to do so because they examined the body and Dr PR did not. Finding a solid yet acceptable argument may not be easy in light of things that have happened.

12. Based on my own analysis, I concur with Dr PR that TBH was unconscious when he exited the window. I concurred with her findings that TBH sustained some injuries that is due to a fall from height. I have no access to the body and post mortem pictures but Dr PR has seen TBH post mortem pictures. In that aspect, I gave her the vote that TBH was brutalized before being thrown out of the window. My position remains the same unless the Malaysian Pathologist can provide some simple, reasonable and logical explanation with regards to the injury of the neck and anus. In the meantime, the general feeling is that the people believe that that there is an interdepartmental collaboration to COVER UP rather than to solve the crime.

For the full article – a very well written and argued one- please go to this site.

Advertisements

18 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. vsvsv
    Oct 23, 2009 @ 17:02:04

    I saw the video of the inquest…..look at the parents of TBH …they are holding their son’s photo during the inquest. Pls god….pls shed more light to what happen to their beloved son, if someone is responsible for his death, pls bring the culprit to justice.

    Like

  2. frank
    Oct 23, 2009 @ 18:19:40

    All the evidence had been threshed out in concise and precise, and yet the AG’s representing lawyer, that Tan fella is still trying to spin further, by contending with DR PR’s finding, without him realized, Dr PR is too highly an renowned international expert in her field, that Tan’s pea head is hardly any match to her standard!

    Yet if the PM is not repentance of his ever foul tactics of maneuvering with the judicial system of the Country, continues with his one hand covering up, it will too much he underestimates the cerebral faculties of the general public!

    Only a fool will think that all others who would listen to him are the most foolish and idiotic ones like he’s !

    If justice is not served now, we all will have to make sure it will be served come next 13th GE!

    Like

  3. klm
    Oct 23, 2009 @ 18:44:12

    It is a shame when doctors succumb to political pressure instead of remaining loyal to their calling and a sense of justice to the dead.

    I am sorry to say govt doctors are a disgrace to their profession.

    It is only when these professionals ( I am reluctant to call them that) put their lives after their professionalism will we see society progress.

    Like

  4. mycuntree
    Oct 23, 2009 @ 22:41:51

    It is all very nice and goody goody to say that the local pathologists could have made some innocent errors here and there in their findings. But we all know the truth, the simple truth. They lied and covered up what should be the obvious. And they themselves very well know the reasons why.

    Like

  5. Meng
    Oct 23, 2009 @ 23:21:16

    The inquiry indicated a cover up plan, indicators are:

    The two Doc said suicide.

    The push for TBH’s parent for psychiatrist appointment…making false report to confirm TBH was unstable.

    No lawyers allowed during the psychiatrist medical appointment.

    Luckily they did not agree with the psychiatrist appointment without a lawyer present. Good move.!!

    DR PR findings confirmed the cover up.

    Was the senior pathologist Dr Khairul under threat ???

    Will he later make a declaration to say that he was persuaded to report accordingly???

    Like

  6. A true Malaysian
    Oct 23, 2009 @ 23:32:31

    The two local forensic experts have themselves to blame for looking ‘stupid’ now. Let them feel ashamed of themselves, if they still know what is shameful in the first instance.

    How on earth they can come out with commit suicide teory. Shameful, simply shameful.

    Like

  7. inquiring_visitor
    Oct 24, 2009 @ 02:59:06

    Something off-topic but I believe relevant to your expertise as a medical doctor. The link below provide a aggregate of news related to the swine flu and its planned vaccine. There are a lot of resistance to it around the world.

    http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=1&Itemid=64&lang=en

    The question is, will you take it if the govenment make it a mandatory vaccination requirement here in Malaysia? What is the policy on this?

    If you think it is worthwhile, then I await your thought based on your posting here in your blog.

    Thank you and best regards

    Like

  8. Dr Hsu
    Oct 24, 2009 @ 11:33:36

    inquiring visitor

    I will answer your query with this article in Newsweek some time back:

    “Swine Flu Vaccine -11 things that you need to know” The link is here : http://www.newsweek.com/id/214847

    I myself would not take the vaccine since I do not have any underlying health problems, and anyway, there is a high chance that I have already got the H1N1 infection, most probably the subclinical type, in which you are not aware of any flu like symptoms, but you just feel a wee bit tired and so on.

    It is because in AUgust, out of every 4 cases of cough and cold, 3 are H1N1.. I did the tests in my clinic and I got this result, which tallied with the result in most private hospitals.

    SOme govt doctors told me that out of every 5 cases of cough and cold then, 4 were H1n1 then.

    SO most of us who are exposed to the virus since we see patients everyday would have got the virus and acquire immunity. In fact , most people in big cities like KL would already have been exposed to the virus, and a kind of herd immunity has been produced..

    But i will stock some vaccines and give to people who are in the high risk groups, the asthmatic, diabetic, the very obese etc.

    I will probably write on this topic in a post… if the readers are interested.

    Like

  9. foo
    Oct 24, 2009 @ 13:11:04

    Doc,
    TBH was beaten ,strangled and sodomised. What kind of people would do such horrible acts ?. These are not human but animals. Sorry , animals don’t kill for fun,these are evil in human disguise. The culprits are the so called MACC. The 2 pathologists are just as culpable as the murderers by not acting professionally. Twisting or ignoring evidences to suit the suicide theory. The PDRM ,also as guilty ,for their slipslop investigation. PM Najib seems to know what happen and is anxious to cover up. Why only allow an Inquest and not a proper RCI in the 1st place? PM’s sweet words ,to get to the truth,to the Teoh family is just that-sweet words.

    Drrafick is right-the whole system is on trial.

    Like

  10. klm
    Oct 24, 2009 @ 13:18:35

    Dr. Hsu. Am I to understand that TBH’s body fell from the 14th floor and the rear part of his body was so perfectly aligned with an unknown object such that it penetrated the anus.

    Can we ask the senior pathologist Dr Khairul to perform an experiment, with his good self as the subject, to see if this is even feasible.

    If it is successful he is vindicated. If it fails, we got rid of a lousy pathologist. 🙂

    Like

  11. Dr Hsu
    Oct 24, 2009 @ 14:54:32

    certain injuries cannot be explained by fall.

    You are right, klm, unless he fell with his buttocks hitting the floor first, and that the anus was pierced by some blunt object standing upright on the floor, you do not get the type of penetrating anal wound from a fall from height.

    But if he fell buttock first, there would be other injuries , like spine fractres and fracture to the ischial tuberosity (the bones which we sit on). and the object which caused the penetrating wound would be easily discovered at the site of fall, and there would be a corresponding hole in his pants caused by the same object.

    I am indeed puzzled…. Let’s see what the 2 pathologists have to say about this wound.

    Like

  12. cilipadi
    Oct 24, 2009 @ 15:55:02

    Immorality is at place here in this inquest and elsewhere,

    Altantuya
    Kugen
    Perak fisco
    VK Lingam (cilipadi source?)
    MCA power fights
    PKFZ
    CSL Dvd
    ISA (Act & Umno ex-MB)
    KTK back door listing

    Long long list, never ending

    Who say MORALITY is not important in politics. Immoral begets immoral, that’s why the never ending list

    Immorals makan cili, Immorals rasa pedas

    Like

  13. frank
    Oct 24, 2009 @ 16:46:27

    As we read on, the Teoh Beng Hock case has accelerated into a saga of the judiciary system is getting involved for the perpetrator of a crime who has the shield of the power that be, to prove their ‘innocence’ rather than, the real inquest into the cause of death to the victim, and the reveal of justice for the dead person!

    Hence all the blackening acts of the suspected assassin, the MACC, has been allowed and taken place. Being an upper hand as the so-called authority to deploy all the tools, the forensic pathologists, they can easily fake up a story through a charade, a very cheap parody show to earn the tickets of the audience of little concerns to the ending! Woe is the pathetic family of the victim innocently killed by the most uncivilized and bestial species which could only be found in this land of curse by many others on the more civilized planet!

    What is the court of inquest? Presumably i was wrong that it’s some kind like Justice Bao who would be fair to the dead soul, taking the culprits to task and all that…but here, it’s otherwise!

    I am gravely perplexed!

    Like

  14. KB
    Oct 25, 2009 @ 12:35:27

    MACC has pioneered a new interrogation method – anal penetration – who would do the Gestapos of Nazi Germany proud. Zimbabwe, watch and learn!

    Like

  15. Vincent Lee Eng Seng
    Oct 26, 2009 @ 06:11:23

    There is a saying that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Kugan and others were believed killed in similar circumstances TBH is alleged to have been killed under. But we all protsted along racial lines. TBH is Chinese so Kugan and the principal does not matter.

    Now TBH’s death continues with its investigation and public commentary mainly from Chinese. Why? because the flaw in our opposition to corrupt government is that we are ourselves morally corrupt.

    We believe human rights belongs to our race only althoug we pretend we are concerned for all. The TBH case is an example.

    Therefore what the Malay does in his own interests should be right by the same standards we apply to our selves. He is afetr all looking after himself. We do the same in Singapore.

    GKR in Lim Kit Siang’s blog makes a comment on Dr. Porntips analysis if you could call it that.

    She gives it a 20% suicide and 80% murder ratio of probability. What science is that? Suicide is about a state of mind that drives a person to terminating their life.

    Murder requires an intention to cause death to another. So what pathological science proves that acccording to Dr. Pornthip? she does not say. Its dangerous for her to speculate on the basis you correctly point out. That being the absence of a body for her to examine.

    A posthumous examination of tissue samples and photographs cannot determine a persons state of mind prior to death or anothers intentions unless it is explained.

    She cannot for instance say it was caused by this or by that. She could say that the wounnds are consistent with physical strangulation and not by physical strangulation.

    What dangers Pornthip may have created is to have provided that element of doubt (20%) for a court to dismiss any charge of murder. It has to be according to the crimnal standard of proof “beyond reasonable duobt”. She has cast doubt.

    Like

  16. anymore?
    Oct 30, 2009 @ 08:11:43

    Razak Musa, the MACC’s Director Of Prosecution, even had the gall to suggest Teoh committed suicide because he was emotionally troubled following MACC’s “big discovery” that Teoh was staying in the same house with another woman who was not the fiancée he planned to marry. And the mainstream media sensationalised this story with total disregard for the grief of the Teoh family who were still mourning his death.

    Reckless and pea-sized brain as ever, Razak couldn’t be bothered to check his facts that the woman was Teoh’s landlady from whom Teoh was renting a room, as most bachelors do.

    They even adduced records of Teoh’s bank account in court to suggest that he killed himself because he was broke and was therefore troubled with the fact that he would not have enough money to support a family. So he chose the ‘easy way out’ by committing suicide.

    All these smokescreens have of course now been blown away. And it was blown away by Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand’s medical finding that “Teoh’s death was 80% homicide”. Her argument was not mere speculation but supported by an extremely precise analysis of so many things that our two Malaysian pathologists either missed or couldn’t be bothered to see.

    http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/28118/84/

    Like

  17. Trackback: Anal wound from fall? « Dr. Hsu's forum Wheat Blog
  18. Xyek
    Dec 26, 2009 @ 01:46:00

    Thank you, I here very much. Sure you check to see you again.

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: