Black crows

Clinic computer is down  and fortunately all files are backed-up. Needs to send for repair, and thus may not be able to post next few days.

Anyway, there is nothing to write about nowadays, since Malaysian politics is now so murky both sides of the divides. It is really a Hobson’s choice, a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea which is also full of devil inside.

With Zaid Ibrahim gone from PKR amidst allegations that there were irregularities in PKR’s ongoing elections, many people are feeling so fed up that PR really needs to buck up.. Ask anyone now on the street the answer is the same.. All the crows are of the same colour. The rare white crow has no place at all among the black..

The support given to PR in 308 was more because of the disgust towards the Big Brother. But once that support is given, it must show that it can live up to the voters’ expectations and the next round, it has to earn it on its own merits. With its own people shooting at its own feet, this support will slowly but surely be eroded. Until something is done to overhaul its own backyard, the 2 party system that many dream about may not materialise the next round. And if it wins less than one third the next election, gerrymandering will make it even harder for the much awaited 2 party system to be realised.

………………………………………………………………..

PKR was the first to let its members, rather than delegates, to choose its leaders. SO it positions itself as a more democratic party than all others, which is of course good if only the de facto leader himself is chosen by the members too. Ironically, this was not done, and as de facto leader who yields tremendous power over other elected leaders, this is something like what is in Iran. The parliament chosen by the people is not the highest authority but rather the Council of the Guardians and the Supreme leader who is chosen by the council consisting of the clerics. The Supreme leader is higher than the president but he,like an emperor, needs not face the electorates. What kind of system is this?

It is like a Prime Minister chosen by the people who has no power but has to refer all decision to a higher leader who is not elected. SO is this still democratic?

While on the one hand, PKR wants to practice grassroot democracy, on the other hand, its supreme leader does not need be chosen by popular votes ( even though he can win any contest hands down).

I find that this is contradictory, and i cannot understand why is this so. Perhaps some one out there can enlighten me on this?

30 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Kacau Kacau
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 14:30:17

    Granted, most ppl are pretty fed up with PKR these days. But the PR front is made up of PAS & DAP as well. Both other parties are doing pretty respectably well I would say.

    Yeah you can say DAP also has its power tussle in Perak, but ultimately it was the due course of democracy. People choose their leader. Loyalty and seniority is worthy of their own respect, but people’s voice and choice is wht democracy is all about, isn’t it? Vox populi, vox dei.

    Like

  2. klm
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 15:21:28

    Old Chinese saying:

    “Clear water can not harbor big fish, clean politics (or strict enforcement of regulations) can not foster harmony among the general public” (水清無大魚,察政不得下和)

    Like

  3. CYC
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 15:24:46

    That is the reason why I am not in favour of a 3rd force as we don’t even have a 2 party system. The notoriously stuck remnants will be filtered out through this chaotic episode of infighting. Whether PKR can withstand this traumatic chaos is yet to be seen.

    凤凰不知能否浴火重生,但总比太监政治摸式好,公公永远不能成为皇帝。格局小已决定不能成大器, 这就是民政党的写照。

    Like

  4. Thomas
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 15:32:44

    Dirty politics derive from dirty people. Don’t be a hypocrite that you never realise that there are citizens who will bribe to avoid punishments or for prefered treatments, buy counterfeits or worse, people who will sell their votes and even their respects.
    Many “good people” rather stay comfortably aside and expect others to work unselfishly to serve them. Even if you are good leader can you honestly say that you can get enough sincere and honest followers to serve?

    Like

  5. Dr Hsu
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 15:43:11

    When a fellow blogger romerz asked me after 308 which party to help when he declined my invitation to join me and help me fight for Gerakan to get out of BN, i told him that in that case DAP would be the better option for him. I told him that DAP was the best party outside. I had a mission then to bring Gerakan out of BN, and because of that mission , i joined in the contest for a CC post. Because i am a person who follows rules and regulations, I cannot reveal what was discussed within but the party did hold a few brain storming sessions to seek out whether my proposal would be the best course. Unfortunately, those who were at the very top had their political lives born and bred within BN and hence they dare not take the risk of going out, and i suspected some had too much to lose by getting out..

    NOw even if Gerakan were to come out, it is already too late… And i am resigned to fade away… Also, since i had no ambition for political office, i would not jump here and there..

    What klm said is very true. In Malaysian politics, those who play by the rules are often outplayed.. I have experienced this times and again, and
    those who did not play by the book often will get the upper hand…

    Like

  6. klm
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 16:29:07

    Dr. Hsu. That was a saying attributed to general Ban Chao (班超) of the Han dynasty , over 2 thousand years ago. This problem is not new.

    The solution is dont play by the rule. Use a thief to catch a thief. The problem is where to find a honest thief.

    Like

  7. Dr Hsu
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 16:37:58

    unfortunately , those who join political parties often have their own agenda for positions and money and these people have no qualm playing dirty.. Those who do not seek positions or money like yours truly would not want to go down so low as to play ‘eunuch’ kind of politics. Thus you will see good people fade away one by one.. Even in DAP, there were many who were idealists and who were outplayed and left..

    Like

  8. CYC
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 17:18:00

    I remember there was this saying which simply means “When u r below 20 and yet to be a communist, u lack passion in life. If u r already 30 and still a communist, u r an idiot.” Similarly, if one join politics with a silly hope of total fairplay and transparency he must be a fool.

    Politics is game to acquire power and be in charge of the destiny of the people it governs. Those who are not inspired by power cannot be defined as politicians. Power is the tools of change whether for the better or worst and politics is meant to change economic and social fabrics of a society. What happen in between is something to be evaluated by the bystanders(voters) for their next course of action.

    Zaid over estimated himself and ignorant of Malaysia politics if he think he could smooth sail into the position of No. 2 in PKR with pure idealism. He is finished, so to speak politically.

    Like

  9. disgusted
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 17:53:53

    No need to be enlightened to get answers, because there is none.

    When everybody is at the bottom of the pit, there is no vision of distant hope. Only those who climb to the top mountain, the picture is clearer and the horizon in sight.

    Just leave it. There is order in chaos. only it has not emerge yet. But better worry about climatic change, it will ruin economies and lives. Next year is a metal year, the rabbit year.

    Hope we hop over this mess.

    Like

  10. A true Malaysian
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 18:13:39

    I agree with what you wrote in this posting. But, what are we supposed to do next? Let the Big Brother stay in power?

    To me, PKR is here because of Anwar, whether he is de-facto or elected, he is still command respect and influence. Sodomy II case maybe a big concern to him for not contesting in the party election.

    I too disappointed with the happenings, and confused who is genuine and who are not.

    All I wish is for politicians of both divides to have a bit of conscience in whatever they do.

    Like

  11. A true Malaysian
    Nov 16, 2010 @ 19:12:49

    Whatever we do, out of ego, to gain power, to be richer, to win whatever, if without conscience, the happiness we get, the achievement that we attained, is superficial, meaningless.

    It is indeed scary to hear someone to defend something ‘at all costs’. What was and is happening may be part of this ‘at all costs’. Just hope some contents of ‘conscience’ are in this ‘at all costs’.

    Like

  12. StevenT
    Nov 17, 2010 @ 11:25:04

    The de Facto leader is the leader of the Pakatan alliance and not PKR. So there is no reason as to having that position in the polls.

    And look at the current circumstances, it’s still very uncertain whether the de facto leader will go to jail or not. It is politically wiser for our de facto leader to not contest any post as more chaos could come out of that as the big brother can then get actively involve in the PKR polls.

    As for the current situation in PR, it’s sad that after 3 years, there’s still lack common messaging and strategy. I hope that after all the polls are completed, they would start to reflect and strategize.

    Plan your work and work your plan.

    Like

  13. Dr Hsu
    Nov 17, 2010 @ 12:15:26

    I suspect that the Indian votes will again be the king maker next round.. So far, PR is not doing much to consolidate indian support.

    As i see it, percentage of urban and semi urban chinese support is more or less fixed. Malay support is eroding but PR will have its core Malay supporters thanks to PAS.. So it will be the Indians that should be courted and whoever will win the Indian support the next round will win.

    Like

  14. foo
    Nov 17, 2010 @ 17:53:57

    Whatever the mess PKR is in right now, it is immaterial. Much more important is to remove BN/UMNO as the ruling party in M’sia. I will still vote PR purely because they had shown a different and better ,although not prefect ,way of governing and managing our resources as shown in states like Penang,Selangor and Kelantan.

    Ever if PKR disappear from our political scene just like Semagat 46,there still DAP and PAS to lead the way for a 2 party system.

    Maintaining status quo with BN/UMNO is going to be a disaster ,they are too arrogant from having little fight from the opposition for the past 50+ years. Ever after 308 tsumani ,they were shaken for awhile but things are back to normal now for them. They have become incapable of running the show. Ministers from BN are not exactly bight sparks. Just see the recent comments made about non-Malay in the armies.

    Political personalities can come and go, the critical thing is the wellbeing of the country and it’s people. Zaid Ibrahim was a nobody before he join UMNO and became a minister. Now he’s a major player in our country’s political scene. If he retires quietly nobody is going to cry. Replacements can be found easily, given time and opportunity. No one person is more important than the country.

    Like

  15. wisely
    Nov 17, 2010 @ 21:16:51

    Hindraff is not as strong as before. Some has return to support BN. So are 6-8% of malay vote. Chinese votes for Bn is just between 20-30%. I guess all races votes are important for both side.

    Sad to hear u are retiring but glad to know ur stand ultimately.

    PKR Baru? by Zaid a third force? and so are Hindraff and SAPP – maybe more…

    My guess is BN will do better than 308 and may even get the 2/3 majority. Only Penang and Kelantan is safe for PR in next GE and like Tony Pua said a few day ago unless PR can penetrate East malaysia Putrajaya is just a dream to them!

    If BN sucessfully changes its constitution to accomodate NGOs and individual, more will support BN.

    Like

  16. CYC
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 09:20:39

    Foo,

    You are right, people no one person is more important than the country.

    “The ship is more than the crew”

    Like

  17. cilipadi
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 10:03:23

    I live in Malaysia for so long.

    Indians, I still cannot understand them till now.

    They voted BN-MIC, they got screwed

    They angry, they formed Hindraf, they voted Pakatan Rakyat, but still not enough for Pakatan Rakyat to form Federal Govt. Yet, they expect miracle from Pakatan.

    Miracle not there, they got angry, Hindraf splintered, now they want 3rd force

    Ayoyo, I don’t know them.

    Indians eat cilipadi everyday, Indians no rasa pedas

    Like

  18. A Single Vote
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 10:52:18

    Sir,

    Many an idealist will be eaten alive in this dirty political arena. A third force of idealists to become that perfect political party?

    Wishful thinking. Even senior politically matured individuals crave for that, what more with naive ordinary voters like us. Split the votes and we give a big ‘YES” to BN’s continued plunder of our society.

    One thing at a time please. First, let us just get rid of the thieves.

    A Single Vote

    Like

  19. klm
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 11:21:09

    Have you heard of divide and rule? Just look and observe what is happening. There seemed to be a conspiracy to divide the oppositions into so many fragments. Because if this, I am worried that Pakatan may not win in the next election.

    Like

  20. CYC
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 12:10:32

    cilipadi,

    Its a daunting task trying to understand Indians. I grow up in a rubber estate predominantly Indians yet I can’t understand them in depth. Its a complicated issue combine with culture, class differentiation in wealth and education level, present condition of livelihood, …etc that makes them a incomprehensible lot. But in reality they are tricky political animals. U will understand this if u watch Bollywood movies. They are more cunning and greedier than UMNO. Having said that, they are also a pitiful lot where their community is widely divided where the rich rarely help the poor. They have very fragile bonding among themselves though it seems united from outside. Hence u see they are so many Indian based parties, all nicely worked out by UMNO to divide and rule as pointed out by klm.

    Hindraf is a spent force by now, or more of alliance of UMNO in NGO form. I bet Uthayakumar will not in a position to even mobilise thousand supporters now compare to his heyday in Hindraf where tens of thousand responded to his call.

    MIC will be heading for another split or fight when Samy goes. Palanivel is too weak to command respect and many will attempt to wrest power from him.

    MIC, PPP, Kimma, IPF, HRP, Hindraf, MUIP… so many parties when Indians only make up 7% of our population.

    My heart is with them though I am a Chinese because they directly enriched my childhood life.

    Like

  21. cilipadi
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 13:18:19

    I live in Malaysia, I mix with people, say M, I, C, O (not necessarily M-Malay, I-Indian, C-Chinese, O-Sabah / Sarawak natives, F-Faked citizen, you got to guess, imagine). In general, means not always true due to cross breed politically,

    M – live in yesterday, loyalty, greatfulness

    I – live in now, let’s grab what drop down from sky

    C – live in future, global is the stage

    O – live, let’s live and die, let’s live

    F – poor so what, U are my father

    Who to come to power next round depend on how MICO mix, cross mindset of MICO. Got to see the direction of mindset crossing.

    Forget about F, nothing much you can do. Father says what, they do what.

    MICO makan cili, not all MICO rasa pedas

    Like

  22. AgreeToDisagree
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 14:36:03

    Try feeding some cili to Haris Ibrahim to see if he will rasa pedas. Google “People’s Parliament” and check out the MCLM article.

    http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/

    Also since Dr.Hsu has apparently given up on guiding his 3rd force faction supporters out of a sense of ‘modesty’ (KTK anyone?) and supposed ‘old age’ (as if 60+ is old, look at Ku Li and dr.Evil), of the 3rd Force and Khoo Kay Peng has not taken charge in any clear manner, the site at –

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Third-Force-for-National-Reform/118236808233215

    ;looks defunct and is collecting members to no purpose or worse, just to promote Khoo Kay Peng’s blogsite and articles (even merely promot armchair-ism in the active political newbie community?!?), I have taken the liberty of setting up an alternative one that will at least engage in discussions or reply if the Haris Ibrahim “People’s Parliament” site somehow becomes a front for something else :

    Third Force (Malaysian Green Party)
    http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_161380297228234&ap=1

    I’d still like for Dr.Hsu/KhooKayPeng to team up with Haris/RPK but it is obviously more a matter of saving face or self promotion than saving the nation with the latter at least, so I leave the readers to figure out if they should migrate to the more proactive faction of 3rd Force which is MCLM on the People’s Parliament site – at least until it turns into something else, in which case I have begun initiatives and alternative persons to addressing the adage – Quis custodiat ipsos custodes . . . hope MCLM is real though, at least one 3rd Force faction looks farcial already . . .

    3rd Force must be about

    1) Freedom from Apartheid/Fascism
    2) Freedom from Religious-Persecution/Religious-Supremacy.
    3) Equality for all ethnicities and faiths in all aspects of policy, Law and Constitution.

    4) freedom from nepotism/patronage clique politics/ending Malicious Compliance

    Like

  23. Dr Hsu
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 14:55:52

    AgreetoDisagree
    First thing for you to do is perhaps to show your identity…You will note that all those who use the same email and post emails will have their comments posted immediately without having me to moderate. Except those who use different emails which has not posted any comment before will have their comment withheld for this blogger to moderate. Your comments have time and again automatically withheld by wordpress because you use many different email addresses, and i really do not know why a person need so many different sources to post his or her comment.
    The implication is obvious…

    Like

  24. A true Malaysian
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 22:19:15

    Let me share with you guys about how I see in this Third Force especially the one mooted by RPK. (forget about whether others like Haris Ibrahim, Khoo Kay Peng or even Dr. Hsu as pointed by AgreeToDisagree at the meantime)

    First and foremost, RPK’s idea of having a Third Force is not to contest coming GE under a different party or coalition other than Pakatan Rakyat. So, in this respect, no issue of split votes arise.

    RPK’s intention is to offer quality candidates to Pakatan Rakyat, if they (ie PR) have no enough quality candidates, Third Force is willing to offer themselves. In other words, Third Force is NOT HARD UP to stand for GE if PR have quality candidates. RPK doesn’t want to see lousy candidates like Zul, Zahrain, WCK, Ah Beng and so on. If not, then we would expect problems later when PR is the government.

    Interestingly, RPK touches on ‘moral conduct’ of the would be candidates as expounded by cilipadi all along in his latest posting. Not many commentators in this Dr. Hsu’s Forum are agreeable to this ‘morality is important in politics’ of cilipadi.

    Other than this RPK’s Third Force, others like those ‘make famous’ by media, to me, are just to muddy the already muddy political pond by you-know-who to split votes, especially that of Zaid Ibrahim. If ‘they’ (ie you-know-who) think they can distort people’s faith on RPK this way, ‘they’ are totally wrong. To them, win is still a win no matter how they won it.

    It is totally unfair to drag Dr. Hsu into the picture of Third Force. Dr. Hsu is another one guy that I can trust fully besides RPK. Both are having the same intention, but different paths. Dr. Hsu intended to save Gerakan by keep on asking them to pull out from BN (though up to now, I still don’t know why Gerakan is so sentimental to him, other than he being a Penangite), but to his admission, it is too late for Gerakan now. Everything is over now. Gerakan is DEAD.

    To make our win meaningful, let’s go through proper way to win, not win at all costs.

    (Note : too bad for Haris Ibrahim to jump his gun so fast on issues brought up by Zaid Ibrahim. This is how I see it)

    Like

  25. A true Malaysian
    Nov 18, 2010 @ 22:28:30

    Same like Hindraf as Third Force, another media stunt script written by you-know-who.

    Let RPK sorts out his Third Force with Pakatan. Meanwhile, don’t distract our focus on getting rid of root causes of all evils.

    Like

  26. Rhan
    Nov 19, 2010 @ 08:57:00

    I see a third force as a third force, just as I see dictatorship as dictatorship. I am not yet attain a level that could tell who is a better third force and a better dictator.

    Hsu and Petra is not yet a politician. If you want to know what a politician is, look at 四君子.

    Like

  27. A true Malaysian
    Nov 19, 2010 @ 11:15:48

    Rhan,

    In actual fact, there is no ‘third force’ per se. The word ‘third force’ emerged after Zaid Ibrahim’s so-called outbursts, and was made famous in media from thereon. The purpose is to imprint in people’s mind that there is another force besides BN & PR to confuse general public with the intention to split votes ultimately to the advantage of BN.

    Somehow this playing up of ‘third force’ have overshadowed the Malaysian Civil Liberties Movement (MCLM) mooted by RPK and fellow bloggers like Haris Ibrahim. MLCM is MLCM, they never called themselves ‘third force’ for that matter.

    MLCM is not political as they are not politician, like RPK and Dr. Hsu as pointed by you. Their ideas are non-partisan but all for the purpose of making Malaysia a better run country. It’s just that BN especially Umno don’t buy their ideas and thus made them like they are pro-PR. Their ‘People’s Declaration’ is excellent to me, but never been adopted by Umno / BN.

    Being not a politician like RPK and Dr. Hsu, where power is not their motives, by right, their ideas supposed to be more receptive. But, very sad, it is not the case for Malaysia.

    Only if Umno is receptive of RPK’s and Dr. Hsu’s views, I can tell you, Umno / BN are surely to be in power. But, sad, Umno / BN choose to win at all costs and not by accepting these sensible ideas.

    What to do then? Vote Pakatan is the only way.

    Like

  28. Dr Hsu
    Nov 19, 2010 @ 11:37:56

    ATM
    Now I see that a third force should be more a social movement to pressure both coalitions to present good candidates with good morality, unlike before when i was pressing Gerakan to come out as a third force..

    It is too late for gerakan to be a creditable third force, and the reason why I am still in is because i do not want to be a frog and i would just want to fade away slowly, not forgetting that i have the mandate of over 900 votes to bring a different voice to the leadership, and i cannot just ignore these responsibilities.. BUt that term is coming to an end next year. The third force that i envisage now is quite similar to what RPK has in mind, but to press both sides to select good candidates..

    But looking at the situation, we are going to have a third force, fourth force, fifth force . And cybertroopers are out to press more bloggers to start 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th force.. the more the merrier.. and these people are using so many different addresses when they comment that their comments were held up automatically by wordpress.

    Like

  29. CYC
    Nov 19, 2010 @ 12:14:06

    Dr Hsu,

    Don’t be enslaved by a name. The subject matter is more important than name. Malaysia has too many immature people politically. So, don’t hope for a 3rd force with substance to emerge soon. Many forces, perhaps. MCLM is not a 3 force but is more of an independent political support group without fromal alliance with any party. In fact RPK, Harris, …. and many more have done that during the last GE (308), only difference being their sole motive at that time was to vote in a more powerful opposition and deny BN 2/3 majority. This time around, they have, good governance and quality politicians is their focus.

    Like

  30. A true Malaysian
    Nov 19, 2010 @ 12:29:02

    Dr. Hsu,

    To many of us civil society commentators, you are not worth being in Gerakan. But, worth or not worth is not up to us to decide, but you alone. For people like us, we rather not to do things against our conscience, but this is not the case for people holding political power, in PDRM, in AG Chamber.

    Once power, wealth and greed override one’s conscience, problems start to seep in the system they are in, what more for those holding power at the top who is authorised to delegate power to down line?

    For this instance, RPK and cilipadi are right that moral conduct of candidates is important. Politician should not use the excuse like since other use immoral means, I can also use the same in politics. This cycle will be there if no one stop that. In the end, who knows their own sons and daughters will use the same tricks against their own fathers?

    Looking at the political situation in Malaysia, conscience is not their vocab, but that doesn’t mean we must be part of it.

    Like

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