No hudud for me!

Like Karpal Singh, who is dead against Hudud law (he has famously said the phrase “over his dead body”), I am not in favour of changing our law system into an Islamic one.

The reason is simple: there are 40% nonMuslims in the country. It would be unfair to implement a religious law on people who belong to another faith.. And faith is something very personal; you can force a person to change his name, you cannot change his mind about what he believes and not believes..

It is also implied in our constitution that Malaysia is a secular country. Even Bapa Malaysia, Tunku ABdul rahman, who was the person most involved in Independence of this country, had acknowledged  that Malaysia is a secular country..

Many non-Muslims oppose to the implementation of Hudud..PAS and PKR, if they continue to sing this tune, would find that some of these votes which are inclined towards them may just disappear..

We all know that even if PR is to govern, they would probably not implement Hudud, since DAP as a component is dead against it.. But that was before PKR throws in the support behind Hudud. Now that PKR’s defacto leader has openly supported Hudud, it is another story.

I think it is unwise for PKR and PAS to harp on Hudud, when there are many other avenues to win back the Malay rural votes..

It is a strategic move on the part of the Old Horse when he raised Hudud issue and dared PAS to implement Hudud in Kelantan.. It is a move to won back nonMuslim votes, and it would be wise not to fall into the trap of the OLD Horse..So old and yet still so wily..

I think PAS’s vice president,Salahuddin AYub, has a point when he asked that PR stop discussing this issue today.. It is wise not to take for granted the support of nonMuslims, since the support for PR is not so much for their policies, but more because of the loath for BN..

90 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. monsterball
    Sep 24, 2011 @ 12:35:06

    The main idea of PAS wanting Hudud laws s to apply the Huhud laws on Muslims only…especially on stealing…corruptions and rapists..by chopping hands.stoning to death and be done with it.
    Karpal …being a lawyer prefers modern laws for all Malaysians.
    Anwar is caught .in between…and quickly said is support for Hudud laws personal.
    I suspect he is trying hard to project a pure no vices image of himself..beside fooling around with religion politics.
    One false move from PAS…the many less educated Muslims and fanatics will all swing to support UMNO b.
    Anwar playing double game…neither here nor there is trying not to offend Karpal nor Nik Aziz.
    This Hudud business is .a political strategy….more than anything else.
    It’s all a political game that Karpal Singh is watching that it does not go overboard.

    Like

  2. Li Li Fa
    Sep 24, 2011 @ 12:59:36

    Joing in the fray, he old horse is using religious sensitivities to savour up the appetite of the electorates , trying to lay political landmines in strategic places. Of course, he has his reasons for doing this.

    Nevertheless, PR component partners have to be careful, cautious, and not cause a chasm in their midst. They need to be focussed on the work at hand to run the race and jump the hurdle of the coming 13GE. Any turbulence among them can cause them to lose dearly.

    Like

  3. Anti kotor
    Sep 24, 2011 @ 14:55:46

    Mahathir brought the subject of the elephant in the room because nobody is talking about it. Are we going to talk about it after Nasi sudah menjadi bubur? Better to thrash it out now so that the voters will not be hoodwinked into a situation they do not want. Bravo old horse. Still the champion.

    Like

  4. mq
    Sep 24, 2011 @ 16:10:58

    I think if we are law abiding rakyats who love peace and harmony it does not matter what law prevails. If hudud is something that is ordained by God how can Muslims say no to it? Anyway hudud is directed at the Muslims only.

    Like

  5. monsterball
    Sep 24, 2011 @ 16:14:21

    Mahathir is teaching thieves how to be better thieves….headline in Malaysiakini blog.
    Mahathir is back at the forefront of his party…acting like PM ..shows clearly UMNO b…his party is suffering from leadership and confidence from voters.
    And can Mahathir convince voters?
    Most likely not..for his bad reputation is no better than his student…..Najib.
    What we are seeing now….UMNO b is heading towards a definite defeat in 13th GE.
    It is their “Do or Die” last few performances before 13th GE…and People Power will also “Do or Die” …with their votes in huge numbers dwarfing BN supporters…much much more..because almost all young new voters are dead set to vote FOR CHANGE and get rid of CORRUPTIONS….double standards and hold dear to the feeling proudly…as Malaysians and race second.
    We were always Malaysians first…. race second from the day of Merdeka.
    It is the dirty race and religion politics by UMNO b ..poisoning minds that seems to succeed .fooling Malaysians…especially Malays….being encouraged to be corrupted…..spearheaded by Mahathir….on going…no way ti repent or change….for changes….means court cases and jail sentences.
    So who is Mahathir right now to vast Malaysians?
    A gas bag…double headed snake crook…best of the best dirty politics player that all smart Malaysians cannot be bothered with.

    Like

  6. monsterball
    Sep 24, 2011 @ 17:46:32

    All religion teaches good.
    However…politics creep into Christianity and Islamic religions for centuries…and it is sad…up to today…in the name of a god….innocent humans die like files for no reasons.
    Hudud laws cannot be implemented in Malaysia….as Communist Party cannot be approved …even though Tunku originally agreed to recognized it.
    It was the wisdom of the British 55 years ago…for Nation building without a party that believes all humans are equal…the Communist Party….and it was right …55 years ago.
    Similarly …hudud laws cannot be implemented in Malaysia….because 40% does not want it.
    Do that now…is actually building up race and religion dirty politics to the extreme and force laws of one religion to others that do not embrace that religion.
    And if you look at the Hudud laws..written 1500 years ago….by men or by god…who knows…..but it is so out-dated agreeing to chop of hands for stealing…as an example.
    Whether it is directed to Muslims or to all Malaysians…..does not matter.
    If we implement it…it is separating races…further backwards.
    Get freedom first from thieves and robbers.
    Get a Malaysian Malaysia first….to unite all as Malaysians.
    Get rid of CORRUPTIONS….and so many one sided laws corrected first.
    That may take 20 years…and by then..the best of the best religion will be the driving force.
    Pick your choice….Christianity….Islam…Hinduism or Buddhism.
    If Islam emerges as the best….whatever laws ..no problem….but right now…Malaysia is not a recognized holy country at all…so please don’t talk holy stuffs where there are so much more to do first…and foremost of all…vote UMNJO b out…where the founder Mahathir is known as the Devil reincarnated…and how true that is….cast tour votes and decide.

    Like

  7. Ellese
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 04:19:51

    I find it funny when people reject hudud law because it is against our constitution or our constitution is secular but when it comes to bersih’s demands or Malay rights, they discard constitutional value. Similarly when people argue that sabah and Sarawak is on equal terms with peninsular Malaysia totally disregarding what’s in the constitution. Can we be consistent whether we want to uphold or not our constitutional value?

    Like

  8. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 05:14:46

    Ellese…One is about religion.
    The other is about cleaning up electoral rolls and corruptions.
    Govt keep on amending the Constitutions to protect UMNO b party.
    Why talk about Constitutions and values when UMNO b governs with an iron fist to do everything as they like??
    Nothing funny about it.
    You are either being brainwashed or purposely promoting half truths.
    In any case….we are voting UMNO b out…to get rid of CORRUPTIONS and their double standards for Malaysians.
    It is either you are blind or millions of Malaysian wanting change of government are idiots.

    Like

  9. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 05:25:52

    Many things look funny to you is exactly what UMNO b wants…to achieve…to confuse…to make simple ways to solve things into difficulties….complicated.
    We have sen it all…and kept quiet for decades for a strong Opposition was not there …until 12th GE.
    Now it is real…so many corruptions exposed.
    Shall we talk about those exposed…one by one?….or tell me..why are you not interested to get rid of corruptions?
    How about “1Malaysia” slogan?
    To vast majority Malaysians….that is funny….I presume…not to you.
    Shall we talk about that?…..and all his slogans?

    Like

  10. Ellese
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 05:51:09

    You are rambling without purpose and averting my point.

    Put a stand first. Do you or do you not uphold our constitution? Yes or no. Then we go into each of your issue. Otherwise you change the goal post all the time. I’m not interested whether you want to criticize umno or support pr, but your own stand and value. You seem like a person whose right or wrong depends on the person rather than the action. Mired in deep seated anger or frustration unable to discern right or wrong. Prove me wrong and put a stand.

    Like

  11. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 06:09:33

    Ellese….Everything…including Constitutions have been fucked up by the corrupted UMNO b government.
    My stand?…..simple…vote BN out…focus on priorities….then talk.
    Meanwhile…I seem like this or seem like that….not important.
    You are entitled to your opinions.
    Your history knowledge is based on what you read in U.
    Mat Sabu is based on facts..untold.
    Prove you wrong?…I did so many times.

    Like

  12. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 06:22:45

    hi Ellese..do you think Najib…mahathir……chua soi lek…ramble or talking facts?
    Dear girl…I never said you are wrong.
    I said you have been brainwashed.
    So leave personal matters aside..side.
    Shall we talk about corruptions…about MCA and Gerakan to UMNO b or real great Malaysians representing the Chinese?
    Constitution is dull and nothing important to discuss at the moment..when the whole country is screwed up by UMNO b and with the support from various minorities races…as puppets on the strings with no shame.
    The subject is hudud religious laws and commands..

    Like

  13. Ellese
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 07:58:21

    I don’t understand you. If you’re so against UMNO bn etc why are you becoming like them. I’m beginning to think you’re like a politician a crooked one where the end justifies any means.

    Let’s forget them. Show me you are true to your words and principles and know what you’re talking about. So is your answer yes or no? Are you for or against hudud? Why?

    Like

  14. aiz
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 08:23:58

    mosterball.. In this country there is syariah court which governs/practices the syariah laws for muslims. Hudud law is in all substance a criminal law which is for muslims and will be under the juristication of the syariah court/judges. There is a inheritance law for muslims which is called ‘hukum faraid’ which is totally different from the civil inheritance law for the non muslims. Reading your comments above, do you think faraid is a out-dated law from God? In addition, all muslims accepted the faraid law as detailed out by God. Would you say that musims or someone in the heaven are blind or idiots?

    Like

  15. cilipadi
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 08:38:30

    Even my Malay friend is against Hudud
    Even if I am a Muslim, I also don’t like it
    The method of punishment is cruel, inhuman
    Many men who divorce their wife improperly, not Islamic way
    Some with 3 ex-wives or more, can be punished by chopping of thier….
    I against Hudud.

    siapa makan cili, dia rasa pedas

    Like

  16. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 11:19:52

    Ellese…..Concerning Huhud….I am against …simply because it cruel and bring Malaysia backward..not forward.
    We have enough of double standards.
    Please read my so many explainations given.
    Are you satisfied?

    Like

  17. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 11:28:14

    cilipadi….don’t start your nonsense again!
    But since you obviously know nothing about marriages and divorces…it is better to get married…and divorce legally in court…..and the reasons have nothing to do with busy bodies except for the couples.
    If you want to talk about marriage and divorces….go sit at the divorce court .. listen to cases…and learn.
    Divorces ….not Islamic way?

    Like

  18. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 11:33:54

    Ellese….What do you mean…I am like UMNO crooks?
    …based on hudud laws….you said that?
    Anyway….that shows you are a student …..talking.
    Am I right?.

    Like

  19. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 11:55:34

    Concerning divorces….it is noted…..more and more young couples are divorcing than before…how sad.
    I hope those with children….the fathers are rich enough to support the children.
    Otherwise…many young ladies need need to find part time jobs…….if the are not earning enough in their present work..

    Like

  20. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 12:27:40

    Talk about hudud laws…be it for or against…you are bound to offend the ….Malaysians…particularly the Muslims….who have enough Muslims laws that they may not like…or have problems with…but are forced to follow.
    This is one issue….politicians from both sides are actually trying to win votes and not offend anyone.
    We have much more important issues to discuss and debate.

    Like

  21. CYC
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 15:12:59

    I am all for secularism which ensure religious freedom. Period.

    Malaysia is in a paradox and sustaining self inflicted injuries due to selfish politicians who never want to subject to religious law but merely making use of it. The irony was they are all heading the religious bodies in one way or another.

    Like

  22. klm
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 15:53:54

    Who cares? This is pre-election nuttiness.

    Like

  23. cilipadi
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 16:14:17

    I support Hudud for men not responsible
    those who divorce their wife or wives
    chop their…..LOL….they deserve such inhuman punishment.

    siapa makan cilii, dia rasa pedas

    Like

  24. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 16:14:20

    Hudud matters conclusion….
    1.UMNO b against it….knowing so many robbers and thieves hands will be chopped off. How to spend stolen money like that?
    2. Karpal dead against it…saying it is uncivilized ..and unlawful.
    3.Anwar wants it personally….to support anti corruptions …playing with religion politics… more than anything else.
    4.PAS party is split..for and against.
    5.Muslims are suffering seeing how the country has gone so far…controlling their lives….as if still jungle people ..like..living..1500 years ago.They dare not speak out…but vast majority is dead against it.

    Like

  25. streetfighter
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 18:00:34

    This Hudud law is not suitable for plural and modern society.It’s a Dark Age Law.You need 4 credible witnesses to prove beyond reasonable doubt and it’s only meant for theft,robbery and adultery.Corruption is not included.If implemented what about the ill-gotten wealth that has been siphoned out of the country.UmnoB will be scot-free while the ordinary Malays who engaged in petty theft,enjoying 1-2 pint and caught having adultery will be chopped,stoned and humiliated in public.LOL.

    Like

  26. Li Li Fa
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 19:04:35

    If one hand is chopped off, then it is really a case of one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing.

    Sorry the pun, but that’s punishment under Hudud law.

    Let’s fall back and rely on the Federal Constituion wisely put together for all the people of this country.

    Due to the purposeful interjection from the Old horse, many got caught in the fracas.

    Jibby said no to Hudud
    DAP said nay since time immorial.
    PAS is pushing for an Islamic state.
    Galakan LoL with a No
    MCA said ‘don’t play play’ with 2 hands up.
    The old horse could be laughing all the way to the polls.

    What is your take on this?

    Like

  27. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 19:09:50

    No one can put it better than you…..Li Li Fa.

    Like

  28. streetfighter
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 20:08:35

    Hoi Alien,are you suffering from ‘apa nama sydrome’?One moment you’re against Hudud and later you supported it.
    cilipadi,all divorcees should be punished?
    You married already, have balls to produce children?
    The way you write, you ate too much cilipadi with worms in your brain.
    Divorcees will be mad at chilipadi.
    Find him and chop off his tiny tootsie and feed to Big DOG.

    Like

  29. streetfighter
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 21:16:15

    I suspect “Big Dog” is your boss.
    You liar alien.

    Like

  30. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 21:36:42

    klm is right.
    It is pre election nonsense…and parties depending on Muslim voters…are trying not to make one false move to loose Muslim votes.

    Like

  31. monsterball
    Sep 25, 2011 @ 21:44:15

    Like I said….between the two devils…we must vote for change of government and let PR occupy PutraJaya.
    At least this devil have not cheated tax payers… one sen.
    It can never be wrong for all to vote for change in government..including Govt employees…and especially from young new voters..to how who is the boss…..certainly not UMNO b party at all…unless you have a sick brain.

    Like

  32. aiz
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 06:49:43

    Dear Li Li Fa,

    In syariah laws like civil laws there many branches of law. To mention a few there are Hukum Munakahat, Hukum Muamalat, Hukum Hudud, Hukum Faraid, etc, etc.. They are all derived from the Al- Qur’an Nur Karim. You cannot take your pick in Islam. How would I tell The All-Mighty that I accept all but not Hukum Hudud because it is outdated? Do you think God would smile at me?

    Dr Hsu… I hope it would not take you too long to moderate my comment. But heck.. it is your blog, what can I say. I can read your intent well Dr. Hsu…

    Like

  33. Lynn
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 09:54:31

    dear aiz,
    I believe the Hudud laws has its wisdom, but I reject its implementation here for reasons :
    1. I believe religion should be separated from the state and that it is entirely a personal matter. And I will reject the Christian, Buddhist or Hindu version of the Hudud Laws if ever proposed as well.
    2. I don’t see why muslims cannot be the muslims they desire to be under the already existing civil laws. Why must they wait for the Hudud Laws to solve their problems? If they can’t do it now, they can’t do it then.
    3. If the Hudud law is desired as a good deterrent of crime, it will still fail, if implemented today. Why? because the same people in charge of executing the laws will be performing that duty. They are not going to suddenly practice values of trust, justice, fairness, and honour overnight.
    4. The Hudud law is not going to solve poverty, lack of education and help narrow the disparity between the rich and poor class, which are one of the causes of crime.
    5. Lets face it, even the syariah court does not have a stellar track record when dealing with non-muslims in cases that the federal courts are afraid to deal with. If they cannot even achieve the simple task of performing justice for them, I shudder to think what justice will be meted out under the Hudud Laws. It is not the law at fault here, please do not get me wrong. It is the PEOPLE and they have not proven to be able to respect and honour the rights of those different to them.
    6. I do not mean offense when I say that the Muslims in this country are yet to show real leadership and be the exemplary citizens to the rest of us non-muslims.

    Please focus on education and improving the lives of everyone in this country, muslim or non-muslim.
    I think it will be irrelevant to your God whether you practiced the Hudud laws or not when you failed to help your fellow countrymen out of desolation, poverty and injustice.

    Like

  34. klm
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 09:55:57

    Dr Hsu. Dedication to you and readers

    Election is in the air (no not love)
    =============
    Election is in the air
    Everywhere I look around
    Election is in the air
    Every sight and every sound

    Words flying causing troubles
    Politicians acting frenzy
    Bee and Ant frothing bubbles
    Mad cow charging like crazy

    Election is in the air
    In the whisper of the trees
    Election is in the air
    In mega projects that we see

    Hudud law kick the ball
    Smoke gets in the eye
    Politicians flying up the wall
    Very soon Bee and Ant bye bye

    (Chorus)
    Election is in the air
    Election is in the air
    Oh oh oh
    Doo be doo

    Like

  35. Dr Hsu
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 10:34:32

    aiz,
    Thanks for your comment and welcome to this blog.

    As a working person who also has a social life, I am unable to go to my blog all the time. But whenever I am free, i will browse throguh my blog and moderate comment.

    For those regular using an email which can be reconised by the blog engine, it will need no medaration, but only with new one, the comment will be held for moderation.. This is to prevent anyone from posting any libel or untruth…

    I hope new readers understand this restraint on my part.. Thanks

    Cheers!🙂

    Like

  36. Azygous
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 10:58:01

    It’s funny.
    Do you know that currently there are DNA probes available to “scan” items which contains pork DNA?
    Recently, a lot of food products (claimed to be halal ones) have been rejected because it contains pork DNA!
    And soon Bank Negara is going to do the same on money notes.
    This idea of extremism is definitely going to expand in each and every aspect once hudud law is implemented.
    Are you sure it is going to affect the muslims only?

    One more issue.
    Does Islam degrades women?

    1) MEN ARE SUPERIOR TO WOMEN

    Qur’an- 4:34 “Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient.

    2) MEN ARE COMMANDED TO BEAT THEIR DISOBEDIENT WIVES

    Qur’an- 4:34 “As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to their beds apart (stop having sexual relations with them), and beat them.”

    Muhammad said ‘Hang up your scourge (whip) where your wife or wives can see it. This is meant to remind the wife that disobedience will bring physical punishment.

    3) A MAN INHERITS MORE THAN A FEMALE

    A man gets more of an inheritance than his sister gets. Qur’an 4:11, 176- “A man shall inherit twice as much as a female”. Following vs. 11, the next verses detail percentages of who receives what.

    4) LEGAL TESTIMONY

    A woman’s legal testimony is worth half of a man’s, (only except in the event that she is accused of adultery).

    Qur’an- 2:282 “…and call in to witness two witnesses, men; or if the two be not men, then one man and two women, such witness as you approve of, that if one women errs the other will remind her.”

    5) WOMEN ARE DEFICIENT IN INTELLIGENCE COMPARED TO MEN

    In the Hadith Muhammad also said a variety of negative things about women. Here is the Hadith:

    “Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah’s apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women).” They asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s apostle?” He replied, “You curse frequently are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you”. The women asked, “O Allah’s apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in your intelligence. Isn’t it true that a women can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said: “This is the deficiency in your religion.” Bukhari, volume 1, #301, and vol. 3, #826:

    6) MEN ARE THE MANAGERS OF WOMEN

    Islam, teaches the husband to be responsible for his wife and household as indicated in 4:34. It is his role as ‘qawwam’ or manager. In the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, p800: ‘Qawwam’ means: manager, director, superintendent, caretaker, keeper, custodian, guardian”. Islamic men do indeed manage their women.

    But there is another part of 4:34…. “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient………Then if they (the women) obey you (the men), take no further action against them.” So, Islam also requires women to submit to men.

    7) RAPE

    Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape, without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men who subsequently develop a conscience, are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.

    The above is just the ‘icing’ of the cake of islamic laws.
    Still keen in implementing hudud law?

    Like

  37. Li Li Fa
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 11:43:13

    Dear Aiz,
    Thank you for your response on Hudud Law.

    As you have mentioned Hudud has many types of limits, restrictions or punishments.
    It is also part of the other types of punishment meted out by the Syariah Laws, which are applicable to Muslims in this country and also around the globe.

    However, a true Malaysian must rise to the fact that this nation has a plural society where the people practise different religions, and live together in peace and harmony respecting each other’s fath.

    Imposing the Hudud law wholely or part thereof or any other aspects of the Syariah Laws on other practitioners of other faith in this country, is step beyond the boundery of civility and propriety. It encroaches on the freedom of choice of religion and treads on the sensitivities of human rights.

    God, I believe , likes to smile on everyone.

    Like

  38. ong
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 11:59:56

    Dr. Hsu,

    You wrote that “Now that PKR’s defacto leader has openly supported Hudud, it is another story.”

    I don’t understand why this should be so. Without DAP, PR is not getting anywhere close to Putrajaya which means that no Hudud laws can be passed. As we all know, UMNO ain’t going to pass any Hudud laws because those UMNO people certainly want to keep their hands as part of their anatomy.

    Like

  39. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 12:09:43

    Dear Aziz….please enlightened me.
    Did Allah said all that are written in the Koran or some are said by Prophet Mohammad?
    I read the Angel and Torah and all are exactly like the Bible…except calling Jesus as a great Messiah and not God……..but that is another story…and beautiful stories they are.
    In the Koran….many things are spoken by Prophet Mohammed….including Hudud Laws…..am I right?

    Like

  40. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 12:29:39

    And if you are truly ….a sincere Muslim…you should admit race and religion are being used by UMNO b into politics for decades.
    I read the Koran by A.Yusuf Ali….which one is yours?

    Like

  41. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 12:36:57

    Do you recognized other religions that speak of God with different interpretations?
    Nowadays…Christians are being advised not to treat Jesus as God…but have faith in him and he Bible.
    And all Islamic leaders have stopped talking about “an eye for and eye”…that kind of war like out-dated advise give by Prophet Mohammad.
    Do you know where your religion sprang out from?
    Know the roots…know the history and don’t brag like you know so much…..like so many text books readers.

    Like

  42. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 12:51:32

    Reading text books of one religion…..knowing nothing about other religions.
    And that’s how idiots start to fight and defend their so call religion.and laws…all created by politicians and so call holy men to control countries and minds…in Europe for centuries…and still going on.
    Dear Aziz…..Buddha never said he is God and never ask anyone to pray to him….do you know that?
    He taught for 45 years….telling all..do good and .don’t do bad and control the monkey mind.
    Do you know at one time…Buddhism was preferred….then Christianity took over and now Islam…….making the world go round and round…still seaching which is the best.
    Anyway Aziz…I am all ears to learn anything from you…..SHOOT!!

    Like

  43. Rhan
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 13:13:40

    Just a hypothetical result:

    Umno 60
    Pas 50
    Pkr (non Muslim 8) 38
    Dap 40
    Mca/Gerakan 4
    Others (Muslim 20) 30
    Total 222

    I think the risk is there when Umno / BN can’t form government, who has the most power to bargain? But no risk no gain.

    Like

  44. Kenny
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 14:10:12

    This discussion on hudud law is actually academic. The constitution will need to be changed with 2/3 majority support in parliament. Bear in mind the following:

    1) No coalition is likely to get 2/3 majority in a free and fair election.
    2) Only BN has any chance of getting 2/3 majority in an unlevel playing field in conjunction with cheating.
    2) Pakatan is unlikely to get 2/3 majority in any G.E. even if they win.
    3) In the unlikely event that PR gets 2/3 majority, there will be no such majority without DAP’s support.

    However the issue of hudud is an effective way to split the opposition. If PR doesn’t handle this properly the coalition may be scuttled and BN will rule for another 50 years.

    Like

  45. klm
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 14:33:27

    I agree with Kenny. Why are you people so worked up over something that would not happen? You are so caught up in this meaningless debate. Wake up people. There are more important issues to argue about.

    Like

  46. sally
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 14:36:02

    Whether we support it or not the civil courts and the syariah courts are already part of this country legal system. Thus we cannot escape from the dangers of conflict when the ideologies of the respective systems are being politicized. Debate is fine but not enmity which we can already see in some of the comments.

    Like

  47. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 16:31:03

    One should not forget….if we do not debate….be it meaningless or meaningful…young voters reading this blog may think Aziz is right.
    All talking well….until Aziz came and confronted Li Li Fa.
    Young voter’s minds are concern.
    Do your part as you see fit to contribute winning young voters…as Aziz is doing.

    Like

  48. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 16:48:33

    It is not easy to argue with Aziz unless you study comparative religion.
    We have plenty Buddhists and Christians who know next to nothing about Islamic religion too….and that’s why religion dirty politics is so powerful..in the past……not know.
    I recommend all non Muslims to buy a Koran and read and see how beautiful the holy book is.
    The problem starts mixing prophet with Allah laws…and all lump up into God’s laws.
    And out of 32 scripture…King Constantinople approved Mathew ..John …Peter and Luke…to make sure..Jesus is God begotten son…a God…which is not true.
    So both religions who proclaimed ONE GOD stuff are actually dividing humans…by Govts and their Holy ones…to control countries and minds….leading UMNO b to be so successful…doing everything as they like….so used to that…because they have people like Aziz.

    Like

  49. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 16:59:22

    If everyone have FAITH in their holy books….just be faithful….no problem.
    To each his/her own medicine for the mind.
    But if one takes a law in their holy book …making it into a political issue…we must learn the art of Li Li Fa…how to talk that brought Aziz into this blog.
    Can anyone do that…..get UMNO b guys into this blog and debate?
    I am sure Li Li Fa’s intention was not that too…but she did it….and before that I said…her comment is the best and still is.

    Like

  50. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 17:07:37

    It is aiz…not Aziz….but I think all know who I am talking about .and hope “aiz” respond to my comments addressed to him/her as “aziz”

    Like

  51. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 17:20:20

    Dear aiz…now I respond to your 26-2011..23.58 comment addressed to me.
    As long as you think your Koran is the only holy book that governs all humans…I suggest .you read more holy books of other religions and then talk to me.
    Bless your great faith…but do not simple believe.

    Like

  52. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 17:34:50

    “Do not simply believe what I say. Do research and know the truths..by your own research and conclusions”…so said the Buddha to his followers.
    He was a great religious teacher…focusing on human weaknesses..opening eyes and minds to have strong minds..be dignified .with principles in life…and be noble human beings.
    Way of Life is stronger than any religion ..now.

    Like

  53. CYC
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 17:37:50

    Koran were printed in many languages, and I know there was a Cantonese version as well. A book binder has shown to me his rare collection. Many people actually studied the Koran but only the Malaysia Malay thought they are the only rightful guardian of the Koran. As it is, each and everyone of us should adopt an open attitude and we may not necessarily more knowledgeable in our religion than another who profess different faith.

    Like

  54. Li Li Fa
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 18:49:30

    Dear Monsterball
    Li Li Fa happens to be a male. I have done a thorough check and can confirm as such. It is also my mandarin name.

    Sorry for the optical illusion.

    Like

  55. aiz
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 19:01:10

    Dear Monsterball… the syariah laws are fundamentally based on the Qur’an, the hadith (the sayings of Prophet Muhammad), and the sunnah (the practical applications of Prophet Muhammad). Prophet Muhammad before he died said that if you follow the guidance from these three sources you would not go astray.
    There are things in the Qur’an that defy logic and reasons, but to the muslims if they are from the Qur’an, that would be the best reasons for muslims to believe/follow/support it..

    Like

  56. petestop
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 19:43:22

    I for one does not mind if the Muslims wants hudud law, so be it. It is a democracy,
    and democracy rules, right ? Especially in Kelantan, you have 95% Malays (presumably muslims) and the majority clamoring for it.

    However, I’m totally against it being applied on non-Muslims. Another HUGE concern, would be the fair resolution when say a case involves both Muslim
    and non-Muslim.

    Even now you already have so many “body snatching” cases and forced
    conversion or conversion without consent of another spouse issues that
    remains unresolved. Majority of such cases are dealt with strong-arm tactics
    of the tax-payers funded religious department. How, can there be a fair
    implementation ??

    Doing so, will basically further divide the country not only by race, but by religion. You have one set of rules for Muslims and another set for non-Muslims.

    Unfortunately, I can only come to a conclusion that such religious dogma are but divisive.

    Like

  57. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 19:54:47

    Wow Li LI Fa….a MAN!!
    Does it mean in English…Lee Lee Fah?

    Like

  58. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 20:18:14

    My dear azi…you have told me that and the way you put it out…as if only Muslims understand the Koran and not infidels….as we are known to you.
    Please azi….don’t patronized me.
    Believe and have faith in your religion….but as long as you do not understand other religions…don’t talk to be about one true god stuffs.
    Malaysia is a sick and corrupted country…which UMNO b and PAS have contributed to it….to win votes and see what happen?
    You are the classic example…a great Muslim….but know next to nothing about other religions and want to talk religious stuff?????
    Go and trace back…who your Islam religion forefathers are…then talk to me.
    All religious laws are good and most written 2000 years ago…need to be deleted or fine tuned to modern times. Don;t stick to those rules like blockheads….be broadminded and practical..especially in Malaysia…a so call space age country.
    I am trying very hard to avoid insulting you,..simple because one of my greatest friend was he late Ahmad Deedat….whom we had many private debates and we never disagreed in anything.
    He also know very little about Buddhism and Hinduism…but one who can quote the Bible ….uside down.inside out…much much better than all Christian pastors he debated with..
    And in the end….we agreed God is invisible….no one has seen him…because he is always there in your mind.
    That’s why we are all call..”godly children”……man made words.
    And out come….con men….robbers and thieves…in the name of Allah steal from all…..and that we must combine to chase these Satanic creatures out governing our country.
    Will you help?

    Like

  59. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 20:31:32

    azi…believe me…the hardest thing is to be a good Buddhist…who makes all followers THINK…analyse..discuss…research… pray pray pray for truths come into the mind…to see all things clear and simple…as it should be…and don’t simply believe.
    azi…do you know…why all scientists do not believe in any religion?
    And Science & Technology are the driving force to what the whole world is today.we are today..
    You want to believe every word in the Koran after 1500 years ?…then give up …MONEY..modern living…TV….cars….air-con…rice cookers…and go back to the jungle…..for pure life.

    Like

  60. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 20:38:50

    Li Li Fa…checked his nipples…checked his hair…checked his muzzles…and finally check he has a TOOTSIE..not PUSSY!!!…just because monsterball thinks he is a wise old lady….HAHAHAHAHAHA

    Like

  61. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 20:40:51

    Now I am confused..whether Ellese is a young female or boy student.

    Like

  62. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 20:56:13

    yea yea yea….beloved kind hearted Mohammed said don’t eat pork because Chinese Muslims went to Mecca ans sell fried pork…so popular..all sold…and Middle East only have camel…lamb… and rabbit meat…no pig.
    So Katijah….the smart wife of Mohammad taught him to give a command..
    “Do not eat pork!!”,,,,,,for pigs are lazy.,,dirty…eat and sleep….sex sex sex all the time.
    What Mohammed said…all are true….1500 years ago.
    But pigs are now…reared so hygienically…so scientifically….why not follow the time and change?
    Anyway…many Muslims are saved by pig …hearts..and lungs in operations….do you know that….azi

    Like

  63. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 20:59:43

    Finally…my dear azi….Mohammed said…”An eye for an eye. A tooth for a tooth”
    Mahatma Gandhi said…
    “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”
    Now you tell me….who is wiser?

    Like

  64. cilipadi
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 21:03:04

    Of all the people, this one talks religion?
    see how good cili is
    but I doubt…..this one no medicine can cure
    talk about Buddhism, mouthful of ……
    guys and gals, don’t bite baits, only I can see thru..

    siapa makan cilo, dia rasa pedas

    Like

  65. cilipadi
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 21:13:00

    There are things in the Qur’an that defy logic and reasons, but to the muslims if they are from the Qur’an, that would be the best reasons for muslims to believe/follow/support it…..from aiz

    my Malay friend asks you, what is brain for then? Defy logic and reasons, yet still need to follow

    no wonder many like…..

    defy logic makan cili, no rasa pedas

    Like

  66. aiz
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 22:02:10

    Monsterball…. I could read that you are quite incapable of seeing Muslims as human beings, as real people with real histories dated some 1500 years ago. It appears to me that you cannot describe the Muslims in other than savage barbaric and crude language. I read that your understanding of Muslims are that they are people from some remote village living far away from civilization, and hudud laws are just fantasies of some deranged Muslim individuals. It looks to me that you are so convinced of the superiority of the non Islamic civilization, so sure of the superiority of their moral and political positions that any Islamic conception of a single humanity has become anathema to you. I wonder whether your hatred and xenophobia, bigotry, ignorance and paranoia of the old and ancient writings/beliefs of Islam and the Muslims can be surpassed? Unfortunately, I don’t think so. So, let me be in my own world, and you in your own monster world.

    Like

  67. cilipadi
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 22:32:11

    Good one aiz.
    Good if you can explain your statement
    on defy logic annd reasons
    wish to learn more about this view
    many see it as ‘weird’

    siapa makan cili, dia rasa pedas

    Like

  68. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 22:40:39

    azi…..I have the highest respect for all sincere practical and religious people and non can top the Muslims in my list.
    I am focusing out-dated doctrines should be up graded or thrown out by all religions.
    Your blaring and ranting is much regretted but hi…I am talking to a Muslim fanatic..which you are proving to be…..azi.
    Islam have failed in Malaysia..that’s a fact…for it it the Muslims that are most corrupted in our country..which Mahathir earned label as the devil incarnated…making Muslims worship to money more important than god..and my god!!………teach Muslims how to steal and tell lies too.
    azi…..it is your own Muslims that spoil your religion …not me.
    I merely put out some facts about pigs and pig organs..to see if you have anything to say..
    You cannot reply….don’t label me as anti Muslims.
    I also fire off Buddhists that shame my religion many times…especially so many dressed as monks..begging at tourist places..shaming Buddhism…and the police are doing nothing about it…why?

    Like

  69. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 22:54:55

    AZI….You insulted Li Li Fa and asked me questions.
    I replied ….you have no answers to my questions.
    Look at your reply….so many thing accusing me…which I did not say those things at all.
    You call me “monster”.
    What kind of a Muslim is you…so rude and so stupid.
    Yes.go to your world…but Islam does not belong to you….so make sure you don’t step out of line and insult others and talk big here..how great Islam is as if all other are infidels….not religious Malaysians….only you and your cocoon brain is.

    Like

  70. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:00:24

    Sorry …..keep spelling your name wrongly….not intentional.
    Is that why you address me as monster?
    OK…your insult accepted.
    Now lets talk about religions or move on…your choice….but I bet you know next to nothing about other religions….and so your world is a fool’s
    paradise.
    You must thank Mahathir for guiding you.

    Like

  71. streetfighter
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:12:17

    Aiseh aiz,why have you not given your opinion with regard to the comments at 9:54:31(Lynn),11:43:13(LI Li Fa the true gentleman),19:43:21(petestop),20:31:32(monsterball),20:56:13(monsterball) and 20:59:43(monsterball).You must also respond others when you expect others to respond yours with facts and figures.Maybe will you start your debate with monsterball first before the rest?But forget the about the alien mongrel just let out by Big Dog to stir shit around here cause he has no any consequence here.He is commenting from smoewhere Afganistan,Zimbabwe,banana republic or cili of rotten island in one corner of this world.Talk and respond like a true pios muslim and not Umno-jenis-islam!!!

    Like

  72. aiz
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:14:34

    Monsterball… any faith which compromises its internal temper or wrath is destined for the dustbin of history. I would argue and stand up to any liberal secularist onslaught. Islam cannot survive as an underdog to dogmatic secularism! If Muslims do not defend themselves, they along with their religion, culture and worldview will be totally marginalized. Docility is one-way ticket to oblivion. I would argue with those who are willing to listen to arguments other than their own and who do not come to the debating arena with preconceived imaginations/perceptions. It is difficult to argue with many here in this blog who sound so uncivil.

    Like

  73. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:28:02

    aiz….my friend…only in Malaysia certain Muslims feel their religion is being threatened.
    We have only 17 million Muslims .out of 27 million population..here…and China has 70 Muslims…while Indonesia have close to 210 million Muslims…….out of a population of 250 million.
    China Muslims never feel any threatening from the 1.2 billion non Muslims!!
    And in Indonesia….they do practices true freedom of religion…..where majority prefers being Muslims….because that country trully live like Muslims…no tittles…no race discrimination.
    Why are Muslims in Malaysia keep defending Islam religion?
    You think your brother Muslims in Indonesia will allow infidels to bully you?
    Come on…stop defending and promoting nonsense.

    Like

  74. streetfighter
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:36:06

    Orang yang masih ketinggalan dan bodoh sombong lagi mahu cakap prinsip-prinsip primitf dan adat-adat konot..apoh la ni..karut punya minda..how to be progressive and be the best democracy?Check lah kepala otak kau betul-betul!!!

    Like

  75. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:37:21

    I challenge you to admit Islam is a branch off idea from Judaism….not word of God spoken to Mohammad at all.
    You go and trace YOUR ROOTS.
    Now don’t put words in my mouth.
    Mohammad is a pious and loving human to who cares and love his people so much.
    Certain holy people are blessed to can hear voices……like Jesus….Moses…Adam…all from the other side of the world…and non from Asia …..how sad..for Asia is the birth place of religions…replacing pagans and idol worshippers.
    Back to you..to rebutt…before I proceed further.

    Like

  76. Li Li Fa
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:52:07

    Dear Monsterball,
    Li Li Fa is also a virtual name – born out of cyber expediency, thriving and driving through IT domains.and places of political interests.

    Like

  77. monsterball
    Sep 26, 2011 @ 23:58:12

    Don’t call us uncivilized ….when you know next to nothing about God at all.
    The days of UMNO b bullying is over.
    We will always be uncivilized…to blast out.with no ceremony…to wake up your monkey brain if we can or debate with you…which most monkies are just toy tom us..in every subject.
    Again.you must thank Mahathir making you so contented and pray 5 times a day….for UMNO b will take care of you forever…don’t worry…..be happy…he says.

    Like

  78. monsterball
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 00:01:42

    Maybe one day….you and I can take a good drive to Malacca my home town for real hylam chicken rice…..dear Li Li Fa.
    We have so much to talk about.
    Now that I know you are a man……I feel more comfortable to joke or rub one onto you..
    CHEERS!!

    Like

  79. monsterball
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 00:17:15

    So your real name is not Li Li Fa…a dream up nick…how nice.
    One smart commentator have “kittykat”..which I thought was a girl too.
    He told me he is a man….after one year!!

    Like

  80. monsterball
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 00:43:24

    Good-night folks!!
    I presume…azi had enough.
    Good night to you too…dear azi….be good always…be open minded and read read read other religious books….not only Koran.
    What are you afraid of?
    Other religious books are also teaching all good.
    Then you will know….all religions are good and we can talk what are bad from all religions to be thrown into the dust bins.
    Don’t live in fool’s paradise created by politicians to control your mind and spirit.
    Are you afraid to read the Bible?
    When you read….then you know….both of you are brothers and sisters…divided by politicians.
    As for me….no religion….knowing there are tons of Gods…not one..tons!!…and I respect all…a way of life…so good so nice…knowing all the wrong things …good or bad I do will be rewarded or punished by reactions within myself.
    Is this too deep for you to understand?
    Anyway…good-night again…dear azi.

    Like

  81. aiz
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 05:19:25

    Monsterball,,, as at now there is 80 comments on this topic of which more than 50% is from you. Fuyoh… it looks like you are working here. All the very best to you. Just becareful of multiple monikers. I can detect a couple already. O yes. one more thing, if God is your co-pilot, it would advisable for you to swap seats. Regards and blessings.

    Like

  82. Li Li Fa
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 08:12:40

    Dear aiz,
    I enjoy reading your point of view and also those from other contributors. There should be a variety of views to bring out the best on any subject or issue.

    I would appreciate it if you could be ‘sabar’ and enjoy this cyber discourse, knowing fully well that the world is round, and God is smiling.

    Cherrio and smile always!

    Like

  83. aiz
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 08:39:21

    Dear cillipadi… re your comment 26.09 [22:32:11] : The Qur’an is dictated by wisdom, caution and prudence. It also preaches about the extra-physical world of which the knowledge is currently not available in the sciences of our age. To support this statement sometimes supernatural phenomena would appear to be against the natural law of causation, or to be miracles which cannot be explained away by logic and reasons except as the will of God who controls such miracles. KInd regards.

    Like

  84. Rhan
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 09:10:19

    Hi aiz, well, it seems just within 24 hours you already familiarize with the environment here, and that is pretty good.

    1. Religion is about faith, not logic.
    2. Hudud is divine law, and I think as long as Muslim is willing to adopt Hudud, that is fine.
    3. The common man also imposes common law on Muslim.

    My reservation is
    1. What about choice? Does Muslim have a choice not to be trial under Hudud? And what about freedom of religion.
    2. What if involve non Muslim, for instance in a rape case?

    In short, I disagree with Hudud at present time, but I am okay when Muslim strives to have Hudud, thus engagement and discusson does help to understand.

    Academic or no, It is a matter of time, we non Muslim must make a stand, and find out more.

    Like

  85. monsterball
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 09:23:22

    aiz….50% comments are mine does not mean I am working here….buy never mind.
    Why don’t you stick to answering my questions.. instead of counting the % of my comments and give an idiotic conclusion again.
    God is always in my mind.
    God cannot be friendly to any human or an assistant.. as co-pilot…unless you are a Messiah or a Prophet….that is if you belong to a religion believing in a one God….and sadly…that one true God…also cannot agree.
    Insults….death treats and ..advises ….I got so many from poor losers.
    I hope you understand all religions are good and none teaches anything bad..and if you sincerely want to be religious …you should be hungry ..wanting to read what Jesus and Buddha said too.
    Don’t worry….majority of all religious people also do not read other books…but only their own religious books. You are not alone in this matter…..but they keep quiet…never shout and promote or defend their religious beliefs….unless being provoked.
    Good Morning!

    Like

  86. monsterball
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 09:42:00

    azi…Every action has an equal reaction…sooner or later.
    Nothing mysterious or unexplainable about it.
    But you are right…our power of understandings is still low….and that is not because a God is smarter..this and that.
    If you have been observing the events LIVE..for past 65 years…and not read books and simply believe…you cannot be fooled by anyone talking godly stuffs like a fanatic..from any religion…that is …if you are smarter than a 5th grade student.
    Discovery channel is opening minds…and I watch to see if there are any mind control ideas applied like in the past about wars in movies….and our history books….telling half truths mostly.
    I always wonder…does any of those supernatural humans know the world was round and tell all humans…instead of being discovered…..centuries later.
    There you go….maybe now 51% comments are mine….keep counting.

    Like

  87. Dr Hsu
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 09:45:11

    Pls do not pose too many comments which are off topics… it will just overload the comment section and people may not have the time to read others which are more on-topic..

    Like

  88. Dr Hsu
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 13:31:50

    To be fair to all, I have taken off the few comments that were posted after I made my last appeal @9.45am.

    For those who have commented, their comments would be posted automatically without my moderation. So not all comments that are posted are approved by me. Since i am a full time working person with social life too, i cannot be around to read comments all the time.. It is a matter of trust for all comentators to be more civil and debate intelligently without resorting to words of abuse..

    ………….

    But for the next 24 hours, I am putting this blog under moderation mode, so all comments whether by frequent readers or not will have to be approved first before appearing on this post.
    ………………….
    To monsterball,

    I welcome your comment if it is made without name calling others and resorting to attacking others.. I hope you realise that I do receive many complaints via emails about your comments not being civil to others… Please just give your opinion without belittling others; we are here to discuss.period..

    Like

  89. cilipadi
    Sep 27, 2011 @ 13:33:18

    Good, I achieved my purpose in this wonderful forum
    It’s time you clear his shits.

    A personal message to you
    Up to u if you decide to show to the rest

    Like

  90. monsterball
    Sep 28, 2011 @ 12:34:02

    One who thinks he has achieved something on another person……when that something was purposely made by the other person..to test freedom of speeches is a fool.

    Like

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