Are there 2 sets of criteria?

Malaysian Insider has this headline yesterday:  Let Umno leadership decide Cowgirl’ s  fate ( headline slightly modified by me ).

Shouldn’t this cowgirl and family’s fate be decided by our existing law? Shouldn’t there be a full and thorough investigation to decide whether any law is broken and if so, the law be applied to the person/persons?  I know the police is investigating, but given what is implied in that healine, can the police force really be impartial?

Is this a country ruled by law? If affirmative, are there 2 sets of criteria to apply the relevant law?

What also prompts me to ask, besides ‘cowgate’,  is that why is  certain retail shop chain (1Malaysia-shop) which were caught having wrong labellings not charged in court? is that not against existing law?  Is the law applied only to those without connections?

Wrong labelliong can mislead consumers and can be very serious if certain contents are at levels not accurately reflected in the labelling.

Any wonder why people in this country tend to break laws and rules..Just look at how cars are parked, and how traffic rules are broken.

32 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. kittykat46
    Dec 07, 2011 @ 14:15:31

    There is the legal issue and there is the political issue.

    The people involved in Cow-gate have covered their tracks very well. The “loans” were awarded as if by proper procedure. Some form of formal proposal was presented to the Agriculture Minstry. Probably no special conditions attached to the disposition of the loan cash, so even buying the cow-condos was strictly not a crime.
    Its called “legalised stealing”.

    The technique was at work in the Mongolian-Submarine deal.

    Politically, UMNO is in trouble over this. The common folks don’t buy the “no wrong doing” story. The Cow-Husband had zero chance of getting the project, and getting the money if he was not Cow-girl’s spouse. Add in their two adult children on the Board of Directors, and its All in The Family.

    I think Cow-girl will be dropped as she is now damaged goods.
    If she stands for GE13, PKR or PAS will just need to play endless powerpoint slides on the Cow-Gate affair during ceramahs in her constituency.
    Its just politics….nothing personal, you know…

    Like

  2. klm
    Dec 07, 2011 @ 16:03:47

    Cowgirl will definitely be dropped. Raja Nong Chik has already setup his service center in her former constituency. To save dumbno’s embarrassment, they will whitewash the case. The police whitewash was due to instruction from cowhead. In this way the investigation paper wont go to the AG. The police do not have the power to decide on a case. But because of political pressure it went to the extraordinary step of announcing the no sign of CBT. This is very unsual.

    Like

  3. CYC
    Dec 07, 2011 @ 20:01:28

    Brutus Liow is dumb minister and serial liar. Bentong folks kick him out fast.

    Like

  4. Phua Kai Lit
    Dec 07, 2011 @ 21:38:30

    Malaysia’s contributions to jurisprudence:

    1. You are not guilty – — if you swear that you are not guilty on the Al-Qur’an in a mosque

    2. If it up to the top UMNO leadership to decide if you should be prosecuted for corruption and misappropriation of public funds.

    Time to abolish the civil courts and save the Malaysian tax payers a whole lot of money !

    Like

  5. Ellese
    Dec 07, 2011 @ 21:49:25

    Doc,

    This time you’re being picky. The kr1m is a good idea for lower income and we should try to support it. Tony Phua being an opposition was being picky on this issue coz they don’t want it to succeed. And for clarity sake since you’re calling for enforcement could you clarify which standards under the food acts that is being contravened here? Not all (intentional or otherwise) is a criminal offence. There is a civil remedy for those suffering damages. Tony seems to be hopping around n I doubt he suffered any damages unless you can tell me to the contrary. Don’t be picky like Tony. His self serving cause is causing much damage to his reputation.

    PS. Please don’t insinuate I’m a paid cyber trooper. If you do this is false n I believe no one can prove this. I’ve been writing quite a while and will stand against person falsely categorizing me.

    Like

  6. Ellese
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 06:08:41

    Phua

    You’ve gone too far. To Muslims swearing on gods name and Quran is sacred. If you lie you invoke the wrath of god. You’re being sardonic belittling this oath. After all in civil courts and proceedings people do swear on bible to tell the truth. Just look at the swearing in of US president. Why is this not scornful. Is it because of the Quran???
    Do a bit of reading on Islamic evidence on the value of evidence of swearing on the name of Allah n Quran. Then do a bit of research on swearing on bible in particular on all civil proceedings. Why mock swearing on Quran in Malaysia?

    Shame on you trying to spin without limits. You just tarnish whatever academic reputation you have simply out of your hatred and scorn of bn.

    Like

  7. Ellese
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 06:32:20

    I’m upset with phua caustic remarks. Let’s look at proceedings in civil courts. All statements must be made on oath. In western countries you swear on the bible. Now if you refuse to give an evidence on oath it’s trite law that there is inference of Guilt. Evidence NOT on oath should not be accepted. It’s an unfair evidence. Value of truth lies more on those given on oath.
    Now this is similar in islam. Value of evidence is given to those on oath ie those who dare to invoke the wrath of god for lying. When one dares not to take oath on Gods name he is inferred as being guilty.
    So when Anwar took statement from docks no one should believe him. As far as the court is concern you can lie through your teeth in the docks. But not on oath. That’s the value of civil and Islamic justice system. Its the same Everywhere in every jurisprudence without exception in the world.
    In islam You can do your oath in the mosque or in fact anywhere. But if you repeat it in the courts it will have legal procedural standing.
    So prof phua, please don’t rubbish us with your blinkered view.

    Like

  8. Phua Kai Lit
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 07:52:36

    Ex-Governor of the state of Illinois in the USA gets 14 years in prison for corruption.

    And in Malaysia …… ??

    Like

  9. Dr Hsu
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 10:24:25

    ellese,
    I am not debating the merits of cheap goods in this post, please do not spin and skew.iT is about having double standards.

    Look at the Food regulations 1985 (http://agribdc.gov.my/c/document_library/get_file?p_l_id=55825&folderId=60448&name=DLFE-1824.pdf)

    It is an offense to have wrong labelling, or to have contents above or below certain levels as stipulated in the act..

    Clause 397 states that

    (1) Any person who contravenes or fails to comply with any provisions of these Regulations
    commits an offence.

    (2) Any person who commits an offence against these Regulations for which no penalty is
    provided by the Act shall, on conviction, be liable to a fine not exceeding five thousand ringgit or
    imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.

    I am just stating a fact that under the law, if anyone’s shop displays items which contravene the Food regulations, he will be charged in court (if got caught) and faces the penalty of a fine or a jail sentence.

    What this post states above is why no action was taken against the chain even when a number of items are in clear violation of the Food regulations?

    I am not debating about the merits of cheap goods, but I am asking why are there 2 sets of standards.

    If a person persistently defends wrong doing, then what inference should I or anyone else in this blog make? It is as clear as a mirror that everytime there is criticism against certain policy or wrong doing, a certain person will deliberately skew the topic. even members of Bn parties do not do that.Some of my friends in BN actually feel ashamed about all these wrong doings. That gives only one inference, not insinuation. Anyway, I do not need to name the person; he/she has already taken the seat according to the ticket, so to speak.

    This is not about cheap goods rather safe goods. Poor people (including middle class now) have a right to properly labelled and safe goods. When labelling is wrong, how are we to trust the contents? that is why rules are enacted in the first place to oversee labelling and that is why it is an offence to have wrong label. But rules need to be enforced before people will follow.

    Even Ministry of Health tacitly agreed this when they asked the chain to remove a number of items from shelves. But why no follow-up action to charge the chain in court? Will this not send a wrong message to others? Charging them using existing law will in fact make all the other retailers buck up, as it would be a deterrent to others.

    Have you not heard of the Chinese saying that even if a Prince commits an offence, he should be punished like a normal subject? (皇子犯法,于庶民同罪)。 This is also a universal rule adopted by most rulers, be it in the west or east, tyranny excluded.

    Like

  10. Phua Kai Lit
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 10:25:32

    I am mocking Najib’s and Saiful’s swearing on the Qur’an, get it?

    I have enormous respect for principled Islamists like Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey and contempt for people like Najib and Saiful.

    I won’t waste my time debating with BN propagandists like Ellese.

    Like

  11. Dr Hsu
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 11:47:28

    Further to my comment above, it is precisely because of this type of double standard that we need to have change.. The others are not angel, they may be as bad, but at least we need to try , otherwise how are we going to face our posterity that we know things are bad but still condo it by resisting change..

    Like

  12. Phua Kai Lit
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 11:58:50

  13. Phua Kai Lit
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 12:09:04

  14. CYC
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 12:49:48

    If there is nothing wrong with food or its labels, Tony Pua would have been hauled up by PDRM or 1 million police report been lodged. Furthermore, why do u think MOH asked KR1M take down those items involved? To rearrange or repackage?

    Why was an existing hypermarket operator was tasked to operate KR1M.

    I do read a lot of communist countries involved in selling food direct to its citizen but never come across any democratically elected govt doing so. The nearest perhaps is Singapore when Trade Union was running convenient shop or mini market.
    Someone is overrating him/herself as if all others are inferior to him/her. To me, it is only those with inferiority complex will boost in this manner. I rest my case.

    Like

  15. BeWildered
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 14:16:12

    Malaysia has been drifting towards a land lawlessness! Since a fraud of nation’s money and fund becomes a political matter?
    How pathetic things need to become before Malaysian wakes up to this societal holocast.

    Like

  16. kittykat46
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 15:49:31

    Ellesse,
    Food safety is a government responsibility and subject to government regulatory laws. It is NOT merely a civil Tort.
    For action to be taken, there isn’t even a need to prove anybody was actually harmed , if unsafe goods are openly sold.
    Of course, in addition to that, any member of the public who can prove he or his family has suffered harm is free to sue KR1M

    Like

  17. kak
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 21:16:04

    its a darn good idea.give me RM40m million and i get to sell inferior stuff under the guise of mislabelling. Colii-E is opposition grandstanding.

    i am not a paid cybertrooper from the camps of PR, you know. What can I swear on?

    Like

  18. kak
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 22:01:11

    just a thought. is asking for equal application of law too much? may be, some are so UMNO-like now with their own set of laws. and that with UMNO sycophant judges backing.
    Section 72 applies and that only if it is in favour of UMNO. sounds familiar?

    Like

  19. Ellese
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 23:35:52

    Read the food act before I commented. The problem in this case is that i Ammon the dark what part of the offence is so objectionable that it is such a hue? For example if I misspell my words using two letters in small case and it should be capital letter it is still an offence under it. But this infinitesimal offence is too small to create such a huge cry. I say it’s picky. Tony pua keep changing his position. That’s why I ask which part or standard that the labeling offence was. Most here don’t even read the regulation. I can agree that it’s wrong. But there’s severity under the law. If I got fine for jaywalking which is a strict liability offence it’s so different from committing murder under penal code. Of course both are offences but you don’t make such a hue and cry for one jaywalking offence. If AG don’t prosecute for lack of manpower and concentrate on other major offences I can even understand that. But if AG pit all resources for jaywalking then it’s pure stupidity.
    Now get back to the fact of this case. Which part of the provisions or standards are being breached? Lets have a look.

    On evaporated milk: Products are actually evaporated creamer, but labeled as evaporated milk in Bahasa Malaysia. However, the name of the product is correct in English.

    Another labeling issue on ice cream:

    Manufacturers do not specify the name of the actual terms of the product on the label, which should be “ice confection”.

    What’s this man? Why is this so major to discredit the whole concept of KR1M. My impression is that this is another typical zealot partisan view again started by to tony pua. Can someone here tell me what’s so big an offence here on this two items. The company withdrew the items and relabel it. So where’s the beef man on the labeling issue?

    Like

  20. Ellese
    Dec 08, 2011 @ 23:59:54

    Doc, thought I posted earlier but may be lost on posting so I’ll repeat. Otherwise you can delete either one.

    Doc

    Thanks for the reply. Before I wrote I had read the food act. That’s why I ask which standard that it breached. If you look at the regulation, even using two letters in small case where it should be capitalized can be an offence. I think someone who wants to make such hue and cry over this has got their priorities wrong. Its simply plain picky. It’s similar to jaywalking offence. It’s a strict liability offence where intent is not required. Though still an offence it is not in similar severity like murder in penal Code. If AG doesn’t have manpower to prosecute all jaywalkers and concentrate on penal Offences I can understand that. But if AG spent all resources on jaywalkers it’s pure stupidity. And someone asking AG to concentrate on jaywalkers must have gotten their Priorities absolutely wrong.
    Now back to our case? Which part of labeling offences that it is so offensive to discredit KR1M and even the government?

    Let’s take in this instance on evaporated milk:

    Products are actually evaporated creamer, but labeled as evaporated milk in Bahasa Malaysia. However, the name of the product is correct in English.

    Now on ice cream.

    Manufacturers do not specify the name of the actual terms of the product on the label, which should be “ice confection”.

    What the heck man? Why is this so bloody offendable to discredit the KR1M. They agree to withdraw and relabel it. So wheres the beef? That’s why I think Tony pua is a zealot partisan person who just can’t see the forest For the trees. And why are we so quick jumping to all this conclusion. Take a step back. What’s good we promote. Don’t make a mountain out of a mole. Be objective.

    Like

  21. Wave33
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 10:09:15

    Dear Ellese,

    Apa dah jadi? Makan salah ubat ke?

    “Why is this so major to discredit the whole concept of KR1M.”
    >> Please DO NOT spin and put words into our mouth (appology demanded), all Malaysian welcome KR1M, because it is cheap and looks after our welfare. Ellese, if you do not like KR1M, just don’t buy lah and stop whining here.

    “Can someone here tell me what’s so big an offence here on this two items. The company withdrew the items and relabel it.”
    >> When it is an offence, it is still spelled “offence”. It is not spelled “tidak apa”. When the company withdrew the items, it means they have admitted WRONG doing. That is an ADMISSION of offence, they are not like you, when you are wrong, you will debate until you are right by twisting to a different topic. Please be objective and non-partisan.

    “Which part of labeling offences that it is so offensive to discredit KR1M and even the government?”
    >> As I mentioned, I DEMAND an appology from you! Please do not use the word “offensive” and “discredit”. Stop labeling us like that for the good things that the government is doing. RETRACT you statement and stop spinning!

    “Why is this so bloody offendable to discredit the KR1M. They agree to withdraw and relabel it. So wheres the beef?”
    >> STOP spinning! Nobody is discrediting the KR1M. “Withdraw and relabel” means committed an offence. Let’s take a would be example, a product in Kedai Rakyat 1Malaysia is labelled HALAL, Ellese went shopping there, did not bother to check whether it is halal, came Tony Pua and brought the matter up on the labelling. Ellese scolded Tony for being “a zealot partisan person who just can’t see the forest For the trees”

    And continue scolding Tony Pua on
    “Don’t make a mountain out of a mole”
    Ellese, says “tak halal tak apa, asal makan tak sengaja, itu tak dosa.”
    Continue by saying: “They agree to withdraw and relabel it. So where’s the beef?”
    >> So where’s the pork?
    .
    .
    .
    Ellese, a personal note, times really flies fast after branding you awhile for being a blind partisan follower. It is already December 2011. Don’t forget your annual medical check-up. Stay good health and be objective.

    Salam.

    Like

  22. Dr Hsu
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 10:35:49

    Why only talked on one or two items? what about others? An offence is an offence,(and that is why its is called an offense and not a mistake), that is how it should be if we really want to be a country ruled by law.

    the way some trooper spinned is like a parent whose child was caught stealing telling the teachers that the child stole only a rubber, not anything valuable, and that is only a small mistake; but this inculcate an habit which will led to the child becoming a big time robber later on in life. Why so many malaysians do not obey traffic rules? it is precisely this type of mentality professed by you-know-who that leads to this situation. Why is corruption getting worse year after year? Because small acts lead to bigger things.

    If a culture is formed, like in Singapore (where even throwing a piece of paper on the floor can lead to a steep fine and thus a culure of obeying law evolved, at least inside their country), this is not a waste of manpower but to instil a spirits of obeying law.

    Why have the law in the first place when you define certain acts of breaking the law as trifle? Look at this piece of news:

    This is from the Star (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2011/11/23/nation/20111123202834&sec=nation)

    KUALA LUMPUR: Claims by the Opposition of excessive vitamin A in Kedai Rakyat 1Malaysia (KR1M) baby growth milk powder have been proven to be unfounded, said the Health Ministry.

    However, the KR1M oyster sauce did not pass the ministry’s test and would be taken off the shelves, minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said at a press conference in the Parliament lobby here Wednesday.

    He also said samples of the oyster sauce showed it was below the standard under the Food Regulations Act.

    I think once there is a law and a person is caught to commit an offence unde the law, no matter how trifle it is, the person must be made to face the law. Otherwise, it will send a wrong signal to others. It is like telling people it is OK to commit small offense, not knowing that small offfences lead to big one. That is why we have PKFZ, we have cowgate.. The whole BN mentality mentality is like this person and that is why we are where we are today.

    In the 60s, I remember clearly that even a car that crossed a white line in a junction, even though it stopped, would be slapped with a police summon.

    Like

  23. klm
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 11:16:26

    Now matter much Ellese wants to divert attention from the issues or give excuses, the fact of the matter is that this govt is guilty of double standards. This forum is not suitable for Ellse, Why dont he or she quit this forum and stop annoying us.

    Like

  24. HuaYong
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 11:28:52

    If we want to argue on the basis of ‘picky’, then MACC is truly picky when the sum related to the so-called corruption by DAP is merely RM2,000.

    Like

  25. Crush
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 11:37:18

    I dont understand why all of you still debate with a paid UMNO cybertrooper.

    Like

  26. Dr Hsu
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 11:43:45

    klm

    I agree with you.

    that particular trooper should leave this forum.

    Like

  27. son of muhammad
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 14:18:12

    I was strollong on my superbike leisurely one sunday morning when two policeman stopped me and asked for my license. As I hand over the license to one of them I was told “saman ah encik”! I inquire why and he told me “tadi encik berhenti stop look go sana’ tapi kaki tak dak taruh bawah. Berhenti kaki mesti mau turun taruk bawah”

    I think ELLESE who I am not sure is a male or female or ….. is trying to be the most and biggest MUNAFIK!

    Like

  28. Dr Hsu
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 14:52:08

    son of muhammad

    In my younger days, I could actually stop my bicycle for a few seconds without my feet touching floor, it is just a matter of balancing.. They are out just to you-know-what..

    Like

  29. JYC
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 18:38:20

    The genuine visitors however are very clear with their objective, do a good job and we will vote you. Doesn’t matter if you are white or black cat. Paid cybertroopers are just that – achieve paymasters objective and get paid . if all else fails muddle up the issue too.

    Like

  30. cilipadi
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 20:07:13

    What elses can Ellese contributes in this forum?
    His or her is sound like Else anyway
    Umno’s style of warped logic

    He or she loves cilipadi anyway
    But I don’t

    Else makan cili, Ellese rasa pedas

    Like

  31. CYC
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 20:52:34

    Recently MCA has employed many untrained gunners adopting cut and paste method. But I pity them because they get whacked left and right. To me, they deserve it as anyone who misused their intelligent and knowledge for evil purpose is morally wrong and has no dignity at all.

    Like

  32. Hanprem
    Dec 09, 2011 @ 22:06:44

    The good doctor has spoken and this unsavoury character is not welcomed here. It is loud and clear. No point keep muddling up the issues and spinning a yarn or two to push the paymaster’s barrel. We have better things to do than wasting time on this character. Just nick off.

    Like

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