Choosing among the ‘devils’

Both Bn and PR have given their  ‘political’ budgets, so how are we going to choose?

As a voter, we should not be partisan but rather we should look at a number of things before we cast our support to one side.

If both sides give deficit budget, then we must look at other areas , like how much leakages are to be tightened and how much of the borrowing to fund the deficits would go to individuals pockets through such leakage.

If there is no 308, and there is no risk of losing the next election, like in the past few decades prior to 308, would there be reforms and handout budget such as these 2 prepared by the 2 sides?

Had BN retained their 2/3, would ISA be repealed? I was once inside Gerakan and was near to the corridor of power , and had even met PM and voiced out directly to him. An example: i had been pushing very hard for ISA abolition. What I got is the promise that certain clauses would be reviewed, and that was quite some time ago.

It is only when BN is now facing the prospect of losing, and PM’s own position is not firm in the BigBrother, that reforms are being carried out, as a last resort to consolidate his position.

It is just like without the Arab spring, there would be no reforms as those promised by some of the Arab countries now..

History has shown us again and again that The powers-that-be are forced to concede to popular demand ONLY when there is a risk of losing power. Histoy has also shown us the trend of dominant government bending to people’s wishes, ONLY when there is a risk of losing power.

So do we still want a dominant government , or is it better to have a government that is more responsive to the rakyat’s wishes? would a dominant government or a 2 party system listen tot he ground more?

These are thoughts that should be considered..

What is the central ill of the present government? the culture of corruption and mindset of greed.. It is a culture of ‘what you can do for me and not what I can do for you”..

Will the alternative be any better? we wont know until we try.. We may get the same thing, we may get even worse, but then if we choose the alternative, we would have establish a 2 party system, and break the myth of invincibility and dominance of a old system..

What happens if the alternative is as corrupt? We throw them out after another round.. It is the only way for the Big Brother to cleanse himself.. Even many UMNo moderates have voiced that it would not be a bad thing for big brother to lose one term.. Then perhaps, the corruption and the race based biase , which is actually used to perpetuate BigBrother’s hold onto power and thus money supply for its warlords, would be slowly done away, so will structural distortion in our economy. Similarly, many veteran MCA and Gerakan members, some of them my personal friends and i can tell you that they really love the parties (it is almost everything to them after spending their whole lives inside the parties), believe that it would in fact be good for BN to lose one term and for MCA and Gerakan to really be reformed and rebuilt by casting out the greedy and ‘cari-makan’ ones ( these greedy ones would be the first to leave if BN loses power).. It is like when you love your children so much, and you know that they would be better to experience a fall (figuratively speaking), you won’t mind letting them fall once in awhile; it is ironic but actually true that if you love a person so much, it may be good for that person to go through certain trial and tribulations of life, instead of giving him silver spoon  in the mouth and golden platter his whole life.

Unless there is drastic reform from the present government to do away with the corrupt practises, and everything being equal, I would not mind trying the other side for once.. Just to set the precedence and consolidate the 2 party system so that the voters got to be the Boss.

So everything being more or less equal, the side that would promise to cut leakage and wastage and used the saving for the rakyat would get my support. Not that I love them more , but rather it is the choice of choosing a POTENTIALLY (It may or may not happen) more prudent devil over the old corrupt devils that we know..

Unless of course the Old corrupt devil can really prove to me that it is really serious to cleanse itself of the wasteful and corrupt mindsets, and undergo drastic surgery to rid the greed culture and biased system ( it would be a monumental task, no doubt)…I will then be more than happy to cast my vote  to the old devil..

74 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. aiz
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 12:44:12

    Doc… Para 5 line 2 should be “corridor of power”… Rgds

    Like

  2. klm
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 13:08:50

    Whether PR “budget” is better than BN is really not an issue. We all agree that change must come. That means BN must be ousted, even if it is for one term. The plundering must stop. Just to give you the scale of plundering, there is a feeler out in the market now, by a group of people in the corridor of power to do a currency swap for 15B USD. Money to be paid in Singapore. Exchange rate is 1 USD to 4 Ringgit, with immediate gain to the provider of the USD. The term is that, the RM must stay inside the country for 5 years. Tax free status will be given. This is money laundering by people in power trying to take this big sum of money out without it being shown in the books. The fact of life is dirty.People. Wake up.

    Like

  3. Dr Hsu
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 13:22:18

    aiz,

    thanks for pointing out.. And you have sharp eyes..

    Cheers!🙂

    Like

  4. Dr Hsu
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 13:48:47

    Read an interesting letter in side view MalaysianInsider:

    Side Views
    Paid cyber troopers — Gomen Man
    October 11, 2011

    OCT 11 — I caution Malaysiakini, The Malaysian Insider and other websites that the Barisan Nasional government has hired about 200 cyber troopers to try and influence opinion on portals, social networking sites like Facebook.

    These paid hands will post inane comments and even challenge webmasters to put up their comments. The idea is to create the impression that there are many supporters of Najib Razak and his government in cyberspace and intimidate others.

    But in truth, they number about 200 and are paid by taxpayers. I urge the new sites not to put up their comments because they are paid hands and are not interested in any principles or in a better Malaysia.

    Their sole aim is to perpetuate the present system despite all its flaws. The Najib government has apparently been advised by its good friends in Singapore that it needs to influence opinions in social networking sites and the Internet. That is why they have hired these cyber troopers.

    So, please beware, Malaysiakini and others.
    …………………………………………………

    Like

  5. Phua Kai Lit
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 14:15:47

    Not forgetting the pro-govt blogs and their operators who are funded by the ruling regime ……….

    Like

  6. JYC
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 14:46:59

    Dr Hsu, what a timely and reasonable article. 200 cybertroopers, goes to show the extent of desperation isn’t it. Well they made their bed long time ago they should therefore soil in it for a while. I am for a 2 party system. When its time to vote my family members and I will know who to go for. I kinda miss the monsterball fella he adds a bit of colour to your reply box (as long as he doesn’t jam them up).

    Like

  7. CYC
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 16:22:23

    Don’t unduly worry about sponsored cybertroopers, they show their true colours after a while when they run out of ideas to argue towards their paymaster’s advantage. They looks smart, they appeal smart but they are not. They can argue, twist and turn till the cows come home. But, the businessmen know best what lies ahead. Follow where the money flows to as there will be money to make at that direction. I pray that Malaysia will register 5.5 to 6% growth even I be damned for suspicious of Najibnomics. But those at the battlefields do not want to believe the growth rate to be achievable, why ? Don’t you think that they also wish to be in Najib’s good book. Instead they choose to differ.

    One always choose to eradicate their bad habits before embark on cultivating a good one. This is simple logic and as you definitely be a better person once bad habits were eradicated even though you may not succeed in cultivate some new good bad habits.

    Like

  8. aiz
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 18:30:50

    Soon, roads would be resurfaced; new carpets and air-conditioning for the mosques; and there will be political campaigns promising millions of ringgit to the people.

    In my son’s room there is a photograph of a former PM shaking my son’s hand. It was a very long time ago. It was published on the front page of a local newspaper which I brought it to a photo studio to have it retaken. He was just about a-year-and-a-half. I was carrying him in my arms. It was a simple handshake and an exchange of a few kind words. There were no promises of money or contracts.

    In the UK, many politicians/ministers live a moderate life after they finish their terms of office. Most of them give themselves, not money, to the people. Not only they respect the rights of the people who elected them but they also respect the opposition’s opinion and point of view.

    I will choose to elect someone who I feel are clean and willing to be poorer after they are elected as Members of Parliament or State Assembly Man. I believe there are still many angel politicians around.

    One journalist wrote this… Quote: “He had to sell or mortgage his property, including his much loved hillock overlooking the scenic paddy fields…… Aside from using the proceeds to finance his political activities, ….. was known for his humility, generosity and kindness, gave as much to the poor of all races and religions. Had he not gone on to become the Prime Minister and be rewarded by the State for his services during and after his stewardship of the country, he could easily have been reduced to a pauper”. Unquote.

    Like

  9. Li Li Fa
    Oct 11, 2011 @ 18:56:35

    Looking at the current scenerio, the two main groupings that emerge with some form of formidable force are the BN and PR. To vote for BN or PR in the coming 13GE?… that is the question. While the older voters could see through the veneer of political manoeuvrings of the said parties, some could find themselves caught in a dilemma; especially the up-and-cyber savvy group of the new young voters.

    Even before the actual GE date is announced, the incumbent leader, after delivering his people friendly-vote pulling budget, went ‘turun padang’ to the grassroots to test the waters and shore up votes for BN and also himself. This sent PR incumbents scuttling about and defending their territories in Selangor, Penang and Kelantan. Beside the opposition, the economists and intellectuals are begining to find weaknesses in the budget.

    The BN onslaught takes on a hyper turn in the cyber world as their troopers pump up the attack against counter-fights from the opposition. This cyber warfare will go on for sometime and culminate to the actual date of voting and even beyond.

    Does the nation need a change in government or continue to be governed by the incumbents for another 50 over years?

    Some say: ‘Enough is enough.’ What is enough? Can it be purchased and it value factored into ‘I help you, you help me’?

    If we want change, then what kind of change is suitable or enough for the nation which is slowly loosing its competitiveness among its neighbours and the world? Do foreign investors shy away from our transparancy, accountability, and competance?

    Is the nation still mired in ethnic politics, wastages and leakages, corruptions and declining productivity?

    Do the people want to exercise their right, face up to reality, and vote in a government of the people, by the people and for the people?

    The incumbents definitely have their hands full and want to defend their seat ferociously at Putrajaya while the opposition surely stand out prominently in the coming GE. It is already written on the wall and perhaps also in the stars – the people will decide.

    Like

  10. Ellese
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 05:58:21

    Dear dr hsu,

    In debate like this we tend to miss the criteria that matter most to people ie the actions or deeds of persons that actually improve ones life and standard of living.

    This is not new. History is littered with this. And we can see the interplay of this in our culture and kawasan.

    In debate like this, people selectively dismiss what bn does for the people. As a result many misread the situation and the debate becomes imbalance for a self fulfilling purpose. Say for example we can argue on leakages but some are actually involved in an etp projects, see the benefit of it and will form a different opinion. For example in another pro PR blog a pro PR commentator went all out to support the mrt project giving financialnand technical justification since he was involved in it. Many of you may dismiss this and thus no one in any pr blog has ever wanted to touch the nkra and etp details but i believe it’s a folly to do this. As more and more being affected by etp nkra and now the budget many pr supporters seemed content to argue on a ‘syok sendiri’ debate dismissing the notion. I think they do this at their own perils.

    History showed how this thrust of “improvement of standard of living” matters to most people be it in developed or developing world. From reagans “small governments conservatism” thatcher “privatization” to clintons “it’s the economy stupid” This thrust is what matters to most. What more in developing country. India is a good example. Prior to 90s people used to joke about “hindu’s rate of growth”. But when manmohan Singh and rao government took over and began devaluing currency, abolish export subsidies dismantle the “license raj” and embrace many other market economies policies that India then moved from the Hindu rate of growth to being an economic giant. Bangalore like area thrived. Its these policies and actions which improve people’s standard of living that people appreciate and be affected. Despite widespread corruption and cumbersome bureaucratic process people value this and now manmohan singh is still the prime minister of India.

    So I think it’s wise for us to be objective. Leakage is a definite concern and must be addressed. But people now start to question that even with the leakages plug as envisaged by the pr budget it shows a limited upside if not the same as bn budget. It would be a compelling case if pr budget shows a surpluss and yet with many social welfare benefits like najib gave but pr didn’t.

    Point is this is due to so few discussion on engine growth or wealth creation except to stop corruption and leakage. We need to move beyond this.

    Like

  11. Ellese
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 06:03:35

    Dr,

    I’m surprised by your concern on government bloggers. Actually all these are immaterial be it to mkini or Malaysian insider.

    It’s the points and debates that matter. It’s the ideas and exchange of it that matters. In fact we should welcome it. If we espoused a liberal democracy we welcome it. There are already many PR bloggers to counter this. So let’s focus on points and ideas that benefit us.

    Like

  12. ong
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 06:51:29

    Ellese would like us to stress more on “what bn does for the people” rather than harping on “leakages”. By such a statement, Ellese appears to me to be implying that “leakages” from BN rule are tiny little unavoidable losses for which we need not be overly concerned. But are the “leakages” really tiny or are they more like floods?

    Personal knowledge telsl me that the “leakages” are more like floods.

    In claiming that others are being selective in pointing out “leakages” and ignoring whatever good BN has done, Ellese forgets, rather conveniently, that he himself is also selective in stressing on the good that BN has done and ignoring the wholesale looting that has been going on and are still going on even while the looters are preaching reforms.

    Notice that I used the word “looting” instead of “leakages”? Because from personal knowledge, I know that the huge losses are not from unavoidable leakages but are from large scale looting.

    Who knows? Ellese could even be one of the 200!

    Like

  13. Phua Kai Lit
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 08:56:14

  14. Dr Hsu
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 09:31:33

    The people now want to have 2 sides, more or less balanced, so that they have a better choice. If you want to have 2 sides more or less balanced, you have to let the other side try one term so that they can show us what they can do.. They may be better, they may be worse, but having a 2 party system, the people will have the last say.. unlike past 50 years, where only one side dominant, the party election of the Big Brother is actually more important than GEs.

    It is a form of divide and rule, and we the rakyat are now playing the games once played so well by the political masters of Big Brothers.

    The side that is no good, kick them out until they become good. Try new one, and if they are no good, throw them out too, and get back the old one.. It is like consumers, try one brand of dish wash which is no good, they can always switch to another; and that is how things improve. each brand of dishwash will try to produce better one and create something that is best for value.. Similarly in politics..

    People want a choice now. No more ‘father knows best’ type of attitude..

    ……………….

    Once I met an old man in a supermarket and both of us were waiting for our other halves, busy doing shopping . The old man told me that he used ‘colgate’ for a few months, and then use ‘darlie’. I ask him why. He said consumers should not make anyone brand too strong. By doing like what he does, he makes sure that there will always be competition, and competition begets excellence..

    we have not yet a 2 party system after 308, just one side no longer dominates with 2/3 control. But even with that, improvement starts to come, albeit little by little. Compared to after 2004, when one side is so strong, arrogance, kris raising, abuse of ISA to protect a journalist etc etc happened.. So if you are a wise consumer, what do you do?

    I am just asking all of you out there to think like a smart consumer.. Use your brain and not your heart or emotion..

    Like

  15. cilipadi
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 10:01:38

    One come after another
    But I prefer this one
    Cheong hei, still ok
    Petite and sexy?

    I can be one of those 200
    To earn some pocket money
    But, nothing good to write
    How can you say you do good
    But leakages & wastages at the same time?
    Are you not pirate then?

    200 makan cili, pirates rasa pedas

    Like

  16. rtee
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 10:30:46

    ellese is a female name, but in cyberworld, a person can use anything

    Like

  17. Dr Hsu
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 10:36:42

    cyber troopers,🙂

    (this is meant to be a pun)

    pls do not target me lah,
    tis a neutral blog.
    I know more BN people lah
    than i know PR guys.

    I only use my commonsense
    when it come to choose.
    When you choose,
    you want to have more choices.

    Better choices better options
    better options better products.
    Better products better future
    better future better lives for all
    (including cybertroopers).

    I know this is lame
    But i m not as good as cilipadi
    cannot write like cpadi
    sounds more like monster

    padi makan cili, monster kena pedas

    (having said so, i welcome everyone, troopers or not, as long as they stick to the rules that there is no personal attacks, no foul languages, no putting down of people/race/religion.

    Like

  18. ong
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 11:37:30

    Ellese used to be a full-time guru
    self-appointed, how else
    at a different cyber school
    school closed when owner drrafick retired
    Ellese got no job, feeling bored & tired
    now Ellese migrates to cyber school
    run by our Dr Hsu
    to be a self-appointed no-gaji guru
    this time, Ellese, at Dr Hsu’s school
    we have a competitor for you
    who?
    cilipadi, who else

    Like

  19. klm
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 12:00:41

    Talking of leakages in the BN govt. I heard this yesterday about a 400M RM new headquarters of a govt agency. Then tell me if we can allow BN to go on plundering.

    Cost to Govt: 400M RM
    Paid to Contractor : 250M RM
    Cost of Construction : 180M RM

    See the leakages at the Contractor and Govt. There is at about 150M RM leakage or 37.5%. at the govt side. This is outrageous. I guess there is also about the same amount of leakages on the contractor side.

    Like

  20. Rhan
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 16:23:45

    cilipadi only know plant cilipadi,
    not sure if he truly got quality
    he everyday talk about cilipadi
    until his enemy can’t argue intelligently

    unlike monster cilipadi dun spoil the party
    he do make some readers feel happy, or gloomy
    he always want to be a martyr
    to ensure hsu carry on his duty

    troopie, ballie and streetie all run away because of cili spicy
    it does make us feel a bit lonely
    good thing is no more willy nilly commentaries
    but more often we were stuffed with cili

    i am wonder do cilipadi really like makan cili
    and what would he do when he feel pedasi
    i recall someone call cili a silly
    silly no silly he remain a cili, or sillypadi?

    Like

  21. JYC
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 19:26:39

    I am no economist
    but can see through the mist
    I am not that clever
    but come on lah dont ram it through my throat brother

    The good Dr is gracious though
    as all good arguments are welcome and more
    why dont you just put your pointers
    and let us ponder without the blinkers

    aiyah my pantun is not there yet but Ellese – your kung fu is not either. wakakakaka good one doc.

    Like

  22. Ellese
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 20:05:37

    Dear all,

    A couple of months back I read this book by Gideon Richman on zero sum game. Mainly its on a short economic history for the past few decades. It reinforced the timely principle that wealth of nation is made of bold good structural policies adopted by countries. To my mind our country has got many things right. But in our haste in becoming partisan we seemed to have lost this bearing and direction to recognise this. We seemed to not know what is good for us and delving wedges further and further apart. We don’t know what we want. The only thing that we know is a right depends on whether it is supportive of pr or bn. We can’t be doing this. We will be lost.

    Nothing more telling than during the budget debate. People argue that bn budget will make us like Greece. I can accept this if you’re for a surplus budget or for fiscal conservatism. But when I pointed out that pr is for deficit spending it showed to me that many don’t even know what they want. One commentator even argued were not discussing about pr budget. To me this is simply not acceptable partisanship. It lead us to nowhere. No one actually know why both parties are for deficit spending. Neither do we develop on the measures actually required for surplus discipline budget. At the end it leads to nowhere save that you support pr or bn.

    Why can’t we do more? develop what we want and policies for us to adopt like mentioned in Richman? There are principles both in PR and bn budget for us to make the stand. There are structural reform proposals in Buku jingga and pr budget as well as in the nkra and Etps. Why can’t we move one step more?

    Like

  23. Ellese
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 20:19:49

    Dear klm,

    You talk on general matter without specifics and thus no one can fully appraised the veracity. If you wish to talk on leakages go ahead. Pr has been arguing this and even factored billions in their budget. Yet the end result is still a projected growth no better than bn.

    What does it show? We need to also focus on income generation for us. How? By debating and determining what’s good for us. If not the rakyat cannot see any measurable benefit by pr. It’s like there’s no difference be it pr or bn. If pr takes a contrarion stand of surplus budget then it would have been a meaningful stand.

    Like

  24. CYC
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 20:58:52

    Don’t act like a guru by advocates growth blindly. None of the guru in the real war zone foresee the projected growth is achievable. So, do i the amateur critics for i don’t cook up figures in the lab. Go ask the businessmen in the street (i really mean those on the street not the tycoons ) whether business has been good for the past 6 months.

    Prime pumping has no effect on restructuring or transforming the economy. It will only temporarily create jobs and generate incomes. Transforming the economy requires a paradigm shift in our mindset and culture of work and managing resources. But unfortunately we see nothing in the budget that tune to this direction except increase pay to civil servants and extending retirement age. To me, this is an insult as it leads to nothing in terms of productivity but increasing operational costs. SMI being one of the important sector of our economy but only granted an addition RM100 million loan facilities. Secondly education did not get increase allocation but defense and internal security did, Why ?

    If the govt has done everything right, why only about 10-15% of our work force are subject to income tax. This is a disaster we deemed 50 years of genuine and dedicated “right” effort could only garner this kind of result. Perhaps I should say the so called experts working for the govt were not up to the standard or something fishy going on there which we don’t know.

    Never project yourself as being non partisan. REad again what you have written and tell me if you really argue based on pure facts without emotion attached.

    Like

  25. aiz
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 22:34:31

    Dear Ellese,

    1.Tariq Ramadan said, “If the western financial system collapses, the western political body goes with it… The cost has always been paid by the people in the past. The elites have gotten away with it.”

    2.Pope Benedict XVI said, “in the face of the world’s vast and profound problem the world economy must recover ethical principles”.

    3.Leonard Binder said, “ Though it may be widely believed that there is much value in the long philosophical heritage of the West which began in ancient Greece, we cannot offer an absolute justification for this cultural complex upon which our civilization is based; nor can we be sure that there is no better way of organizing human life.”

    I think you can get the hunch from where I am coming from.🙂

    Like

  26. cilipadi
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 22:39:44

    Dr. Hsu uses common sense
    I use logic
    Quality or not
    Not up to me to tell
    So long they are with common sense
    With logic and natural justice
    Even people see it silly, it’s ok to me

    Since you say both budgets are deficit one
    Can you tell Najib adopting PR’s budget?
    If can, then I comment on it
    If not, why waste time comment?
    As if if I comment with logic, you will tell Najib to adopt

    Logic or not logic
    Quality or no quality
    You, you and you
    If yours consciences are clear
    Without blind loyalty or partisanship like Dr. Hsu
    While his days in Gelakan
    I relish you a martyr
    If not, cilipadi is what I stuff
    Not into your mouth
    But into your butts

    Cilipadi by logic, is pedas
    Still, some nuts say not pedas
    Perhaps of their blind loyalty
    Or perhaps of their partisanship
    Have blunted their taste buds
    That’s why I stuff their butts
    Instead of their mouth

    Butts stuffed with cili, mouth rasa pedas

    Like

  27. streetfighter
    Oct 12, 2011 @ 23:13:58

    hahahaha..so funny..but why allowed cili to shit around here when doc could play play and mocking monster for fun?This is somehow partisanship in a way..no rule,principle and justification..just to promote oneself best known to him.The best 1Malaysia classroom for all Malaysian students tutored by Guru Ellese.Wakakakakakaka

    Like

  28. cilipadi
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 00:15:49

    Shit around..:D
    Another plagiarism at its best
    Like the infamous copycat judge
    Fit for a rat who fight on street
    For Umno’s crumbs
    Who fumble and mumble like an apek
    Who failed to deliver to your masters
    If not why new 200 cybershitters?

    How to hide your long tails in between your legs?
    You can fool people sometime
    But not all the time…..

    Fighter makan cili, Monster rasa pedas

    Like

  29. Rhan
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 00:43:40

    What is structural reform and what is the requirement of structural reform? I copy from net : “The goal of structural reform is to create a favorable policy environment for accountable, transparent government with a well-defined public and private sector working in mutual reinforcing ways to promote prosperity and sustainable development.” The key word here is accountable, transparent and well-defined, thus the questions come to mind is did we achieved the objective, are we sincere and yearn to achieve the objective, or we merely want to reform for the sake of reform, and can’t tell apart form and substance?

    Let me talk history, again, I cite here what happened 2000 and 1000 years ago in China on reform, respectively initiated by Emperor Han Wu-ti (HWT) and the very famous reformer once quoted by Anwar, Wang Anse (though I doubt if Anwar really be knowledgeable about him). During both periods, they set off a socio-economic reform whereby government took over the leading role to manage business and commerce in order to increase nation coffer and at the same time, improve military prowess. As aware, any reform would encounter objection and protest, therefore the first action adopted by the reformer is to negate freedom of speech to ensure there is no dissenting voice, to do this, HWT killed anyone that opposed him while Wang Anse removed those government officer that disagree with him. Without free speech being the foundation of good governance, accountable and transparency will deteriorate with the passing of time, but the worst phenomenon is as what rebuked by Sima Guang (one of the most famous China historian, the other one is Sima Qian that wrote the Records of the Grand History, and interestingly, Sima Qian were sentence to death by HWT but commuted with castration, his work had a great influence toward Sima Guang, that wrote the first China history in chronicles form, Zizhi Tongjian) against Wang Anse: collaboration between government and public would have the apparent effect to improve economy and living standard in the short term and often the result is glaring, however in the long term, this would derailed check and balance, thus corruption and rotten is inevitable. Sima Guang is right by looking at what happened to post-HWT period, and some of the reformed outcome by Wang Anse.

    Without a mechanism to check the growth engine (Mahathir is no difference with HWT on certain context, the successor have difficulty to continue their legacy with a broken system) and by looking at our own history, I think both BN and PR have to do more to convince us what reform are they talking about, in fact I don’t trust both, but I would support anyone that would advocate (relatively speaking) true democracy with rule of law as underlying feature, and pave the course that would revert the country system back to separation of power between legislative, execution, and judiciary. We did give BN a chance, or many chances, and 54 years is not that short, perhaps we should give PR a try?

    Like

  30. Rhan
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 00:54:33

    On cyber trooper, i agree with what Ellese and CYC said.

    Like

  31. ong
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 04:23:38

    klm,

    I can understand when you wrote “Paid to Contractor : 250M RM; Cost of Construction : 180M RM”.

    The obscenely big profit margin of 39% (RM70 mil) can only be due to a negotiated tender. Typical BN government scams which many people with the exception of Ellese already know and acknowledged.

    Whether or not you have proof is a different matter. Whether your claim is credible or not is a different matter. At least people can understand your statement.

    However, your statement “Cost to Govt: 400M RM; Paid to Contractor : 250M RM” makes no sense to me, even with your subsequent statement “There is at about 150M RM leakage or 37.5%. at the govt side.” Surely you need to elaborate further to make your statement meaningful, though not necessarily credible.

    My simple layman mind tells me that whatever is paid to contractor would have been the cost. Therefore if RM250 million was paid to the contractor and you claim that the cost to the government is RM400 million, you need to say something about to whom the additional RM150 million was paid to give meaning, though not necessarily credibility, to your statement.

    Whether or not you have proof is another matter. Whether people agree or disagree with you is also a different matter. Main thing is that statements and claims must make sense to average and normal layman like me.

    Like

  32. Ellese
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 06:01:38

    Dear CYC,

    I’ll do a brief reply.

    Noted many analyst report. Read from 2%  to 6 %. (see mier and  also) Check out the latest IPI index that shows robust growth in industrial output (particularly refined petrolium) which seems to lead to a growth exceeding 5 %. Let’s see how it evolved.

    On bn transformation of economy, please look at nkra etp and 5 year plan for transformation on education social economy etc etc. Mentioned this before but no one wanted to explore. Not saying good or bad but think you’re making a general statemen. Read it. Im keen to debate if you want coz we need to put up some common stand. It’ll be better if we interlaced with Buku jingga and PR budget.

    On income tax, please note one of the reason its like this is because we have high threshold which excludes many from paying tax. the issue is similar to both bn and pr handout in the budget. Im debating elsewhere that we should somewhat tell both parties the line and limit for social safety net. We will see more handouts in future by both bn and pr as this is popular. We are still developing and not a welfare state yet. we need to extrapolate a stand on this.

    I’ve reread. Think i hit both bn and pr. On looking at bn good deeds its in response to a specific issue. I need to refocus some of the points in our policies which are right. Of course we should also look into pr good deeds in particular in PR states. We need to. But to me it’s crucial we look into these policy  issues coz we seemed unable to make a consistent stand and be principled. Take the case of lynas. We should support pro development projects which have multiplier effects. The gni for lynas seems huge and the investment is strategic. On the other hand there’s environmental concern. Had a deep debate on this but none (including those involved) can articulate why it’s more dangerous than some of our mundane activities. On the balance of things, if we can develop a stand consistently, we could have decided what’s good for us. Instead it’s again what’s good for bn or pr? It’s getting ridiculous. The eaier we snap out from deciding right or wrong depends on bn or pr the better it is for us. 

    Like

  33. Ellese
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 06:10:43

    Dear Aiz

    I can have a sense where you’re heading on western capitalism economic system. You seemed to be well read. All I ask is to take a read on Gideon. It’s an easy read and you see that we need to be pragmatic. There’s competing interest. Identify them and set the pragmatic balance for our good. Hope you can feel me too.

    Like

  34. Ellese
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 06:11:08

    Dear cilipadi,

    You seemed like a young person wanting attention from me.

    Just to let you know that as soon as you can put a stand and reasonably develop your points I will respond. Otherwise it’s very superficial. Another thing: most I met whose approach is similar  to yours always change goal posts when debating. Please put a stand. Otherwise for the time being  I’ll let you basked in your own syok sendiri with the cili and allow you to think others rasa the pedas. 

    P.s. I however ask you not to resort to name calling. I typically respond in equal verve to those who write purely on a personal basis. 

    Like

  35. Ellese
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 06:32:23

    Rhan

    Thanks for the interesting write. Learn something. My only reservation is that advent of Internet changes everything including our values. There’s no more restriction of ideas. It propagates easily. The London riot was striking. Of all the places, one would take it that they have a high freedom of expression. But there was still pent up frustration among lower class but this was given short shriff and not attended to. Thing is it spread like wildfires through the Internet then to the country. Amazing profound effect this Internet has. Another our own example is the bersih rally spread by Internet. Going forward our world has changed. My view is the approach of hwt or for that matter mahathir or even lky is difficult to replicate now.

    Main challenge of our Internet mindset is to move people to a liberal democratic debate where we debate more on issues rather than personality. From here it forms it’s own opinion and followers and pressure point for causal betterment. We then get politicians to compete for our interest.

    Like

  36. cilipadi
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 07:38:23

    Name calling?
    Change goal post?
    Where? Elsie

    siapa makan cili, dia rasa pedas

    Like

  37. klm
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 09:01:56

    Dear Ong

    It just meant what was paid out from Treasury was 400M RM. The contractor took his share (and paid what he had to pay) and the rest went to others (the usual culprits in the corridor of power). This breakdown came from someone in the project who knew the actual costs and payments.

    Like

  38. Phua Kai Lit
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 10:25:08

    Videos from our fellow democrats in Singapore:

    (Suggestion: start from the middle of this video and continue into Parts 4 and 5)

    Singapore and Malaysia still under the yoke of right-wing govts helped into power by the departing British.

    Like

  39. Phua Kai Lit
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 10:58:49

  40. klm
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 11:14:43

    Dr. Hsu isnt’ it a relief not having to attend Gerakan’s AGM this year?

    Like

  41. Dr Hsu
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 11:56:03

    Even if Bn wins the next election, the party will probably win one or 2 parliamentary seats.. Many grassroots too are disenchanted as the Top is spending more time following Najib than attending to party affairs. KL party is now like a state without head, even though the head is the Top who runs from Penang and takes over KL by order of CWC… there is utter confusion on the ground. In one parliamentary constituency(used to be our strong hold), there are 2 service centres manned by 2 rival candidates, each doing his/her activities.. Top chooses to watch without doing anything..Many party loving members are totally disgusted and disappointed.. That is the morale on the ground. KL party organ has never been at so low point……………..What some members told me: “No eye see”

    Like

  42. Li Li Fa
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 12:56:33

    When the Australians, who are protective of their own environment, do not want this kind of industry, our experts here, choose to act otherwise by setting up this Lynas plant in Pahang.

    This is an environmental issue of grave concern. The people in Pahang are worried, scared, concerned, and desperately wanting their future generation to live on. Even the orang aslis around that area are desperately concerned. We from other states should empathize with them, and help them in finding a solution.

    Is there any debate long enough in the Parliament on this issue?
    Will it develop into a human rights matter?
    Will the people’s voice be heard?
    Or Will the calls for the coming 13th GE drum out the cries of the people?

    Like

  43. looes74
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 14:16:09

    Ong,
    Don’t forget Ellese arse kenna fried by Din Merican. So much so that he must create an anti din blog.

    Dr Hsu,
    Beware!

    Like

  44. Rhan
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 14:31:23

    looes, that din fella is a hypocrite full with egotism, his blog and the horde over there (except that bean fellow) is mostly infected with syok sendiri syndrome, I hope you are the exception.

    I wish not to talk about this but looes you started it🙂

    Like

  45. Dr Hsu
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 14:44:53

    Prof Phua

    you are the best person to know how bad is our education ssytem.

    Everyone admits it, from ministers and deputies down to common men.. everyone complains but hardly anything has changed.

    Many ministers have children in privates schools. Ask them why, and of the record they will tell you…

    Like

  46. Phua Kai Lit
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 15:40:30

    “Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will” as a famous thinker once said.

    We need to keep hope alive if we want to see change in our lifetime.

    1. It is heartening to see what the Finnish govt has achieved in terms of a good education system that is also egalitarian.

    2. People are not stupid. All of us are capable of learning and of lifelong learning. We just need to have our eyes opened after years of exposure to propaganda and elite manipulation.

    We complain about our rote learning educ system. But don’t forget that the products of this system actually fluorish once they go to overseas universities where there is academic freedom and freedom of speech.
    This is why I feel that the alternative mass media and the Internet can play an important role in the informal education of our young people.

    3. In the public health field, there is the “Public Health Supercourse”.
    It consists of lectures uploaded by public health professors worldwide.
    This can be done for ALL fields of study. It is possible to gain the equivalent of
    a university educ (except for the highly technical subjects) without going through the formal process. The person just needs guidance on what to read and access.

    Here is the website for the “Public Health Supercourse” :

    http://www.pitt.edu/~super1/

    Like

  47. CYC
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 17:49:00

    Don’t be overly obsessed with Gdp and gni if the principle of fair distribution of wealth is what the govt must focus on. Instead, pls look at gini co-efficient index. Is narrowing or widening.

    I hv not read buku jingga and not supporting anything comes out from pr. But i definitely not happy and think bn has a hopeless record. Policies can be very nice to look at but the crux of the issue is whether its implementation is true to the spirit of the policies and the result reflected its aspiration.

    Economists tend to quantify every damn thing using their imagination. How do you quantify value of lives against short term economic gain. As rightly pointed out by Ambiga, Lynas enjoys a 10 years tax exempt status. Hence, the govt gain nothing as compare to the cost to rectify any eventualities that may arise from any mismanagement of the waste and Malaysia is not well known for its failure to even maintain public toilet properly.

    Malaysia have high threshold on income tax ? You must be joking, Anyone earn more than RM3k already subject to tax and you mean 3k is a high threshold.? the only reason i can imagine is probably many muslim choose to pay zakat instead of income tax. And this is grossly unfair to income tax payer as zakat collection only benefits muslim while income tax collected will be share by the whole nation. I m not trying to be racist but in the spirit of true democracy and fairness, this is something must be addressed.

    Like

  48. Rhan
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 18:44:31

    Agree with you Ellese, especially this: “From here it forms it’s own opinion and followers and pressure point for causal betterment. We then get politicians to compete for our interest.” but seem like they now compete who give the most handout🙂

    The issue is complex, Western countries welfare program actually do more harm when the rest open up, their competitiveness is now in terrible manner, I think they lost the balance, speech freedom and democracy alone may not be able to restore their past glory, however, I don’t think many would believe that democracy and free speech is the cure for economic ill, and we should not follow blindly the West wrt their welfare system.

    To add on to what you have said, our present and future government must acknowledge that human aspire for both wealth or good living in economy sense, and the freedom to choose or liberty. Authoritarian government not necessary lead a country to poverty by looking at Singapore, and the recent robust growth of China, however, people also treasure the freedom to choose, to express their view, and free to read whatever they like provided they don’t break the law. The people in the West are now speaking up their dissatisfaction and unhappiness through various channels, that is up to their government action to right the wrong, if the incumbent government fails to solve it then the people can make a choice to elect a new government under the spirit of democracy, accountability and transparency complement the whole political system and climate, we therefore must not rely solely on internet, we must push for a more open and free society.in diverse aspect.

    Like

  49. cilipadi
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 21:19:30

    Now they are attacking Malaysiakini
    For Malaysiakini has the integrity that they don’t have
    To gain back their integrity, they attack Malaysiakini
    How naive they can be

    They attacked Malaysia Today
    Through TV3 especially. Remember?
    But, they failed miserably
    For people with integrity
    No money, whatever big, can be bought
    As integrity has no measurable value

    Well, 13 GE is near. This is the last round of attack perhaps
    Don’t waiver your trust and confidence on Malaysiakini

    They makan cili, they have no integrity

    Like

  50. streetfighter
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 21:39:16

    Hahahahaha..Elesse makan cili,cilipadi rasa pedas,mumbling,don’t know what himself is talking and then lausai.

    Like

  51. cilipadi
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 21:53:24

    Look at how the 200 cybershitters
    Acting in Malaysia Chronicle
    Their acting are so predictable
    As if we people can be easily fooled
    Some street rats are jumping with joy
    How ironic this can be?
    Showing their tails glaringly

    Street rat makan cili, cybershitters rasa pedas

    Like

  52. streetfighter
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 22:10:44

    This alien cilipadi is so cute and so so hot for Bolehland but basi and no voomp in his birthplace.

    Bolehland makan cili,alien lausai in his birthplace.

    Like

  53. streetfighter
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 22:30:37

    Ellese,is cilipadi too hot for you as an alien?Basi alien cili i mean.This outcast alien cili is promoting his pedas ‘shiok sendiri’ basi cili.Siapa makan alien cili,non-alien rasa pedas.Hahahahaha.I think we have much better sambal and pedas curry dishes over basi cili.

    Elesse and non-aliens makan sambal and pedas curry dishes,alien rasa sendiri pedas till lausai.Wakakakakakakakakakaka

    Like

  54. cilipadi
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 22:40:46

    How pathetic this AP can be
    For a few hundreds, he sold his soul
    Same like those 200 odd shitters
    With no shame at all in exchanging their integrity with a few crumbs
    How pathetic they can be

    My adopted country is doomed if they succeed
    For they have no shame at all
    You know what is AP stands for?
    Make a guess.

    Shitter makan cili, AP rasa pedas

    Like

  55. streetfighter
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 22:54:14

    I know the answer..Alien Padi

    Like

  56. cilipadi
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 23:04:31

    Wrong guess
    See how fast this AP ate cili
    See if it mumbles after that
    (I bet it will not anyway)
    Dr. Hsu, cybershitters are in action
    Show is on, clues are there in my message
    If you makan cili, you rasa pedas, don’t blame AP

    Shitter makan cili, AP rasa pedas

    Like

  57. cilipadi
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 23:19:40

    I want to disclose to you all here
    MI and MC, or even FMT
    are questionable
    You better watch out
    You must be of high wisdom (unlike AP) to read them

    Or Ellesse, you get yourselves fooled
    Don’t rhan away from them anyway

    I know these people
    I am a non-Malaysian
    They don’t actual concern

    Malaysia’s future is in your hands
    Vote for my behalf

    Some says, vote ABU
    Vote Anything But Umno
    Undi Asalkan Bukan Umno (from my Malay friend)
    VOTE FOR PAKATAN, even though some see them devils

    MI and MC makan cili, FMT rasa pedas

    Like

  58. streetfighter
    Oct 13, 2011 @ 23:27:01

    Don’t worry doc..this alien will send more of his cyberalien comrades to your house.

    Doc makan cili,cyberalien comrades rasa pedas terus lausai

    Like

  59. cilipadi
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 00:25:43

    Let me give you all an analysis
    Unless strong attempt for diplomatic inteference
    The undiving submarine case is coming out soon
    In French court

    Resistance is surely strong
    From Jib and Flom
    The last thing anyone
    Is to appear in court
    Or end up in prison

    The old horse is cunning
    Everyone knows anyway
    Tell Jib to drag GE to near term expired
    By then, Jib gone of course flom gone oso
    Bcos of dirty linen wash internationally
    Or by internal force down like the sleepy beauty and the beast

    Even then, for people on ground
    Jibflom not a factor, as damages already there
    But Umno is
    With or without Jibflom
    Drag or not drag GE
    Damges had been deep-rooted
    Especially with MT and Malaysiakini
    You see overwhelming support for Pakatan

    Last attempt, attack Malaysiakini
    Do or die, before GE
    They are dying
    They won’t be missed like Steve Jobs
    Malaysiakini emerges stronger
    Unless their nature take over their head
    Then, other matter

    Malaysiakini and MT need our fullest support
    They carry the flag of true democracy
    To make Malaysia a civil one
    Not one that rot with shits

    He maybe cunning, but he not always smart

    Jibflom makan cili, Old horse rasa pedas

    Like

  60. Ellese
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 06:18:30

    This is what cilipadi wrote on the budget:

    “The big question is
    Whether Najib’s government is spending within it’s means
    Apparently not since the budget is a deficit one
    The next question, how then to spend in excess it’s means?
    By borrowing?
    From where?
    Who are the lenders?
    Loan sharks?
    Is this model ‘NAJIBONOMICS’”

    Then I highlighted almost all developed country has worse deficit spending. Probably his adopted country. And then I also said pr has adopted deficit spending too. Dia rasa pedas. He then replied:

    “What for I touch on PR’s budget?
    Theirs not real, shadow, not their money
    Like the old horse said.

    Singapore, Japan, Germany …..and Malaysia
    Malaysia richer than those countries?”

    You can see through and through deficit spending was just an excuse to criticize. To him every other country can have deficit spending but Malaysia no because of Najib. But pr even it comes to power it’s ok. See the incoherence!

    He question how we pay deficit. I then ask him to just googlelah. It’s basic and similar to his adopted country .it’s not new.

    He didn’t even make that effort or at least try to comprehend and ask for reference. To me this reflects his character. It’s a waste of time. Then left him to himself to rasa his own so call cili.

    But he craved attention and later i told him to write properly. Provide rationales and examples in writing. Be firm with a stand and principles.

    So cilipadi, do that and I will answer your reply. I have not accused you of name calling. But will leave you with your syok sendiri cili and your sidekick streetfighter unless you start name calling n be personal. I will also respond if you want a reasonable coherent debate or the issue you raise (not about you) is pertinent.

    Ps. If theres an outside chance that you’re really against deficit spending, you must show it by advocating people not to vote pr. Otherwise another incoherence again. Might as well admit deficit spending argument is just an excuse to hit Najib.

    Like

  61. Ellese
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 06:45:34

    Dear CYC,

    You were the one who started questioning our GDP growth but when I explain various projections you now say Gini coefficient more important. You can’t do this otherwise we debate till no end. Anyway see the Gini numbers and it’ll show you how we’ve improved even with nep. Had debated on this with so call political analyst wong chin huat whose conclusion doesn’t tally with the data he himself presented on the Gini coefficient. Funny man this Wong chin huat.

    On tax you’re again moving your goal post. You complained why many not taxed. I told you the tax treating excluded many to explain why. Suddenly now you want to argue threshold not high. Please be coherent. Otherwise well argue to no end.

    Like

  62. Ellese
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 06:52:19

    LLF and CYC

    On lynas already had a long debate previously. Please check the exposure level. You’d be surprise it has lesser risk than your mundane activity which are not banned. Also check allowable exposure level by US EPA. Then see whether your view is reasonable or just supporting for partisan sake.

    Like

  63. cilipadi
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 08:04:27

    Better this time
    But not good enough
    Answer me directly
    Don’t beat around the bush

    Consult your economist expert
    Give me a better answer
    Go, go, go. Think again

    I succeeded making them work harder
    LOL

    I makan cili, cyber______ rasa pedas

    Like

  64. cilipadi
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 08:40:06

    This one is better
    The other one or ones
    Can just mumbling, syiok sendiri, lausai

    Another one mild, ‘silly’ or ‘sillypadi’
    But he is more of a party man
    Like Dr. Hsu said
    Many love their party
    He is one of them, my rough guess

    But, who cares?
    Good meat (small part) amongst rotten meat (big, big part)
    You lovers should chop of the rotten meat part
    For good meat to grow
    You did that?
    You doing that now?
    No is the answer
    No hope

    Good meat makan cili, Rotten meat rasa pedas

    Like

  65. cilipadi
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 08:53:56

    Ok, I can take it Najibonomics is superior
    It is confirmed by you
    deficit spending by way of borrowings

    We know the debts stand at about RM450 billion
    One last chance for you and answer me
    WHO ARE THE LENDERS?

    Hope you not beat around the BUSH this time
    Unless you tell me you are George Bush, senior of junior

    Bush makan cili, Najibonomics rasa pedas

    Like

  66. streetfighter
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 11:41:27

    I know, I know what AP means cilipadi.It means you are Big Dog automatic pussycat to poo poo at this blog.
    Plant cilipadi is your proffesion, my foot.
    You plant all you want.
    One huge Chinese monster farmer can plant ten times better than you.
    You can show off at a classroom forum blog.
    Try planting at Lim Kit Siang’s blog.
    Your balls will shrink. Your eyes will stink. Your body will smell like shit.

    LKS makan cili,pussycat lausai.

    Like

  67. Li Li Fa
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 14:32:40

    Dear Ellese,
    I am referring to your comment and thank you for your views of Oct 4,2011 @06:52:19 as follows:
    “On lynas already had a long debate previously. Please check the exposure level. You’d be surprise it has lesser risk than your mundane activity which are not banned. Also check allowable exposure level by US EPA. Then see whether your view is reasonable or just supporting for partisan sake.”

    I thought your comments could have been written correctly like this:

    [LLF and CYC
    There was an earlier long debate on this subject of Lynas.
    Please check the exposure level in the environment which will be affected by this project.
    You would be surprised that it has lesser risk than your mundance activity which is not banned.
    Also please check the allowable exposure level recommended by the US EPA. Then, compare whether your views are reasonable or you are just a partisan supporter.]

    I also like to remind you of Dr. Hsu’s comments on Oct 12, 2011 @ 10:36:42
    “(having said so, i welcome everyone, troopers or not, as long as they stick to the rules that there is no personal attacks, no foul languages, no putting down of people/race/religion.”

    I would suggest you improve on your writing first before you even start commenting on others.

    MYOB.

    Like

  68. Ellese
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:42:19

    LLF,

    You understood perfectly well. Thanks.

    But madam, under this new regime of “freedom of speech” I respect your right to comment as you did but you can not stop me from commenting whichever way I like. It’s best you rebut my point so that we can have a discourse.

    Like

  69. Dr Hsu
    Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:30:13

    of course, smoking is bad. 30% of all cancers can be attributed to smoking.. But the important point is , it is all about choice.

    If a person, despite warning on the cigarette pack, still prefers to smoke, it is his choice knowing that the risk of cancer is there.

    But in putting up the rare earth plant, did thepeople around there given a choice? Bukit merah residents did not choose to stay there. They have been there for god knows how many years before the asian rare earth was set up there. They were not given a choice. If given a choice , i am sure most of them would not want the plant to be there.

    Same with flying The pilots , who are at risk of cumulative exposure of cosmic radiation, choose flying as a career, it is their choice. Just like I choose medicine, even though i know that chances of contracting infections are greater than normal persons, I choose it because it is my choice.

    But people around lynas, or rather people of Malaysia, they are not given a choice over this plant. If people are put at risk for a hazard, at least they must have a say whether they accept the risk, just like in smoking, if yu know the risk and still insist n smoking , that is your right, but even so, now increasingly, authorities are putting up rules to do away the risk of inhaling second hand smoke. That is why smoking is not allowed now in planes, in restaurants, in public places.. It is a principle of safety, if smoking is hazardous, remove it from public places where people who object to secondaary smoke need not inhale second hand smoke. And that is what most responsible governments have done in the world.

    Using the principles of smoking, like what ellese has chosen, People who do not like to be put at risk, however small is the risk, should have a say in whether the plant should be allowed to be built. By all means build it in the vast sparsely populated areas of Western australia, if the people there do not object, Just like by all means smoke in your own privacy, as long as you dont put others at risk.

    …………………………..
    To say that anti lynas people have no reasons, the whole article above , using the principles of safety, is reason enough. I leave it to your (my dear readers’)common sense and wisdon to make a judgement whether i have made a case above.

    Like

  70. Ellese
    Oct 15, 2011 @ 07:26:06

    Dear cilipadi,

    Since you seen to ask in earnest I will respond. You can google it to verify. Anyway I’ll paste it for you. Typically government around the world can raise money from the following:

    “Taxation
    Seigniorage, the benefit from printing money
    Borrowing money from the population or from abroad
    Consumption of fiscal reserves.
    Sale of fixed assets (e.g., land).”

    In borrowing they issue treasury bonds and other instruments from debt markets. Our public debt borrowing has been substantially raised domestically. Foreign debt has been very low comparatively. We have high savings culture.

    So it’s not like a typical individual. In fact if you have high savings you should try to mobilize it for optimum growth balance and better return to savers.

    Like

  71. cilipadi
    Oct 15, 2011 @ 10:22:22

    My dear Ellese
    Still not good enough
    It’s open secret Umno gomen dealings are secretive
    Even Wikileaks has no acess to them
    What more about Google?

    Is it so hard to tell SPECIFICALLY
    WHO ARE THE LENDERS
    That made up RM450 billion?

    Umno gomen makan cili, lenders rasa pedas

    Like

  72. cilipadi
    Oct 15, 2011 @ 10:29:39

    MC confirmed my doubt in them
    It has lost it’s integrity as a news portal
    Attack on MK will continue
    They are going to burn fingers that play with fire
    Read on here http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=21190:the-malay-mail-malaysiakini-saga&Itemid=2
    See how the 200 cybershitters shitting
    No more newsworthy

    MC makan cili, MC rasa pedas

    Like

  73. looes74
    Oct 15, 2011 @ 16:49:39

    Rhan,
    The difference is in singapore from time to time, Singapore government has no hold bar review on their policies. Tell me did Malaysian government especially BN-UMNO has ever reviewed their review. Just look at this link

    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/be-grateful-to-bn-government-dpm-tells-people/

    Dr Hsu has said that even on the eve of the voting in singapore, the present PM apologises to the nation. One just wonder…..Would Najib apologise to the nation?

    Rhan,
    As for other aspect, got to agree with you….Hehehe!

    Cilipadi,
    Just MI, MC & FMT. Even you are questionable.Hahaha

    Like

  74. cilipadi
    Oct 15, 2011 @ 21:31:22

    Which part of you is loose😀
    Your mouth or __?
    Fill in the blank yourself
    As I don’t know you a he or she
    LOL, some entertainment here
    Hope you don’t mind

    74 makan cili, dia rasa loose.

    Like

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